So this is Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University and I'm joined here, today by Logan Amster.
Logan is a student in our School of Counseling, a master's in clinical mental health counseling.
And welcome, Logan.
Great to talk to you.
Yeah.
Thank you for having me.
So why don't you just give me a little bit about, tell us a little bit about your background and and what got you interested in in becoming a counselor?
Yeah.
Well, I sort of always had kind of a a latent desire, I would say, for the last seven or eight years to pursue counseling.
There were a lot of aspects of it that I was really drawn to and sort of came to a head when I was discerning religious life.
And I was thinking about, we were actually trying to start a men's religious community.
And in that, I had a great experience where I got to spend a month with doctor Bob Schutz doing a workshop for priests and seminarians on healing.
And while I was there, I really became firm in my decision not only that I'd be leading my community, that I wanted to become a mental health counselor.
So that was where I just knew where I really wanted to jump off to.
And that was the first time I heard about DMU.
I just approached doctor Shoots and some of the other counselors that he was bringing in to help with the month long workshop.
And everybody unanimously said, the only place you need to look at is DMEO.
Because they do the best they do the best of weaving in Catholic anthropology to real scientific based counseling practice.
Okay.
So you were, how did you get interested in in the new order?
Like, you were did you go were you out of college at that time or I was out of college.
Yeah.
So I'm 33 now.
And when I was about 28, I approached a friend and a mentor of mine and said, hey, I wanna be a priest, but I I don't know where to pursue that.
Because most people, it seems, when they have an interest in religious orders, that's an encounter that that came from their youth.
They had a history and I didn't have any of that because I converted to Catholicism when I was 23.
So Three.
Yeah.
So when I was 28 years old, I decided that I wanted to be a priest.
I didn't know how to do it.
And he said, actually, I just happen to be starting a men's religious community.
And so I became their first seminarian.
And, she's a very close friend of mine and was a was a very, great mentor to me.
He was my first spiritual director.
She taught me about prayer.
I did.
She taught me about, Lectio Divina, the examine.
So he'd always been a part of my spiritual life and it just seemed like a natural fit.
And so that's sort of it just sort of blossomed down its own.
And then were you practicing any faith before or did you No.
No.
I grew up in a secular household.
My mom was in really into transcendental meditation.
She was raised Catholic, left the church for forty years and came back when I was about 17.
But when I was 10, I learned sitting meditation or walking meditation.
When I was 13, I learned sitting meditation, sort of what you think traditional with your legs crossed.
And it was when I was about 17 years old.
She came back to the church, and then my two older brothers, my senior year of college, went through RCIA.
And I started to sort of pick their brain and ask them about their faith encounter.
And it sort of led me to the threshold of the church, and then I had a lot of working out of things to do from there.
That is so beautiful.
God God has a path for each one of us, a particular way of revealing himself and leading us along that journey.
Isn't that neat?
It's something else.
You know, it's interesting.
So you thought about priesthood, and then during that process, you saw this this need for mental health counseling and felt more called to that.
Indeed.
That's okay.
Indeed.
You know, it's one of the things some of our best students are former, seminarians and religious religious sisters and Yeah.
And I think there's a connection.
I think, sometimes focus missionaries.
When people are working, people really wanna serve others in a deep way.
Yeah.
Obviously, one way to do that is as as being a member of the clergy, a priest, or a religious sister, a focus missionary.
They certainly get a great taste of that two years out, working on the college campuses.
But I think it also you know, it it if that's not ultimately what God is calling you to do, counseling and psychology is such a great way because you people are gonna open up to you with thing things they probably won't even tell priests sometimes.
Right?
They want kind of a neutral maybe they're afraid to tell a priest because they they wanna be judged or whatnot or they think the priest is gonna do that.
Yeah.
So but, really, it's serving people on such a deep level.
Right.
I think that's a I think that's a big we see this in many cases and, and many times, you know, those who have some experience or trying to figure out what God was calling them to do Yeah.
End up doing very, very well in the field.
Yeah.
For me it was sort of a very It was actually a kind of a practical process of saying okay, it's clear to me that God doesn't want me to be a priest, but let's look at some of the desires that I had towards priesthood.
What was it that drew me to priesthood?
And one of those things was definitely that pastoral relationship.
And I didn't have to let that go.
You know, there's a lot of those things that that God asked me to let go.
That I didn't have to.
And so I was happy to carry that into counseling practice.
You know, Saint John Paul the second has a great quote.
Something along, he talks about how, each human person person is really a mystery.
Yeah.
And he talks about how work of mental health professionals, connects you to the tangled web of the workings of the human heart and and how to how to help people make sense of their prior experiences, things they're going through, struggling with, and so forth.
So Yeah.
Yeah, really you really need, I mean, in a way, the priestly heart of Jesus and we're all, you know, we're all part of our baptism is right.
We're all priest, king, and prophet.
Yeah.
So great to be able to do that.
Yeah.
And so you picked, DMU, be you you, because you heard from doctor Schutz and the others that who are working at that that great ministry Yeah.
They were they were recommending it.
Yeah.
I mean, that's definitely what peaked my interest.
And and I started looking at other institutions.
And it seemed like most places really are offering what is essentially a secular counseling program.
And this is the only place that I found that, you know, in our we call them PhD, it's philosophy.
You know, in our PhD courses, you are really getting thorough, firmly rooted, magisterially faithful philosophy, catholic anthropology.
And to me, particularly as I get further in the program, it's just so striking how our vision of what human flourishing looks like is essential to the practice of counseling.
If we don't know if we can't agree on where we're going, and if there's not some consensus, then the practice is sort of aimless.
And so to me, the idea of flourishing that's proposed both by DMU, but ultimately by the church, is the one that I wanna try to fulfill.
Yeah.
That that's, you know, it's a great point.
You know, what what is truly for the good of the person and where what's our goal in therapy?
Right.
You know, make someone have a does this feel better for the short term or were you trying to lead them a life that's gonna be fulfilling a life that has, an eternal destiny, and a life that, you know, we're we're fulfilled in virtue and things like that.
Yeah.
So you're how long are you now in the counseling program?
I'm about halfway through the academic program.
About halfway.
Yeah.
And how in the next few, you mentioned a little bit that you're you're learning more about the the human person.
Yeah.
What a human person is and what makes a person even happy.
Right.
How are the teachers?
How's everything been?
I mean, it's been fantastic.
I I have thoroughly enjoyed the program.
For me, it's different because I do it part time.
So I'm only taking one class at a time.
And that's the pace I have to go at because I work full time.
But it's a nice, it's a nice spread where we'll take a couple more counselling skills, you know, counselling theory, emphasis classes, and then we'll get a philosophy course.
And so it's sort of like two or three counseling courses then a philosophy course.
And I like that pacing where we sprinkle in the anthropology as we go and sort of continue to lay the foundation.
Yes.
So that's that's, yeah.
There's the part time out.
Right?
So if you're working full time it still is possible and you're able to you're able to make that work with your It does work.
It does work.
I mean, it's it's sort of one of those things where if you commit to do a few hours a day in your evenings, absolutely possible.
And so what are your plans when you get your degree?
Do you have an idea what what you wanna do with this degree?
Well, I'm, you know, I'm I'm trying to be realistic about that, but I've sort of always just wanted to have private practice.
I worked, so I was in the working world before I ever pursued priesthood, and so I think I acquired just enough of those business skills to be able to run my own shop.
And that's really what I'd like to do.
And I really liked being able to just sort of control my own destiny, not be subject to other influences, and really just have more pure relationships with my with my clients and just be able to serve them without any sort of answering to anyone else other than to them and God.
Right, so running your own shop.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you're up in the New York, New Jersey area.
Yep.
And, I'd imagine there's plenty plenty of people out there, who are gonna need your help.
Indeed.
Yeah, yeah.
We have an interesting blend too because in my in my community there's heavy Hispanic population so it's a good thing I speak Spanish.
And and I think that's, a community that presents a growing need in our country as we see that population continue to grow so rapidly.
So that might be a part of my future as well.
Any any words for, someone who might be considering this career and maybe they're on the fence and they're not quite sure.
Yeah.
Any any advice you might give?
Yeah.
I mean, you know, for me, it's a big part of it was paying attention to what people were saying around me.
Not so just as far as taking their feedback.
I I had a number of people say, you know, wow, you're you you you know, have you considered something in counseling or something like that?
And I think that that shouldn't be ignored.
So that was kind of helpful to kinda get the ball rolling.
And then, start to look at the program.
And start to look at programs, look at their curriculum.
See if those, even just the names of the courses are interesting.
You know, does it appeal to you?
And then, I also bought the CCMMP before I was a student, and just sort of, I mean, it's a it's it's a hard it's an intimidating read, I think, for most people.
But once I really started to get through it and I sort of started to form a little bit of what I thought their picture of the human person looked like, it made me very excited to be a part of that.
So I think that those for me, particularly as far as landing at DMU, were sort of three essential pieces.
Yeah well with the CCMMP of course is our textbook.
Yeah.
We have a new nickname for it, the model for human flourishing, but it's all about what the what a human what makes a human person.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
You mentioned that.
That's a great point.
Actually, what helped me in my own discernment of the priesthood, you know, the are you the kind of person sometimes people come and ask you questions or unload or tell you what's really going on deep in their in your heart.
And for some reason, I had a few people doing that to me.
You know, maybe that's a sign, you know, that God wants me to be able to serve people on a different level.
And I think it could be it could be also a sign for those who are considering.
I you you know, that your friends confide things to you or your family members.
Like, you know, that could be a real sign that that you have a gift for this field.
Yeah.
I absolutely agree with that too because like I said, that I mean, I I that's an essential part of paying attention to the people around you and, you know, you make a great point.
And by the grace of God, I come to a program that also emphasizes learning how to listen a little better.
Yeah.
Is that that's pretty helpful.
That's what we all need to learn.
But I but find that.
Yeah.
But it it it it if you work at it, it's not that hard.
No.
It's not.
You know, you just have to learn.
He's a long time.
I said, what are you talking about?
You don't do it.
But it it you know.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, Logan, thank you very much.
Yeah.
Great talking to you and and God bless you and your work.
And we'll be praying for your success, in the program and also with the big ideas you have for the future.
No.
I appreciate that.
Thank you for having me.
Take care.
God bless.
Thank you.
Bye bye.