WEBVTT 00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:16.215 So this is Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University and I'm joined here, today by Logan Amster. 00:00:16.215 --> 00:00:22.775 Logan is a student in our School of Counseling, a master's in clinical mental health counseling. 00:00:22.775 --> 00:00:24.075 And welcome, Logan. 00:00:24.455 --> 00:00:25.335 Great to talk to you. 00:00:25.335 --> 00:00:25.495 Yeah. 00:00:25.495 --> 00:00:26.715 Thank you for having me. 00:00:27.190 --> 00:00:34.090 So why don't you just give me a little bit about, tell us a little bit about your background and and what got you interested in in becoming a counselor? 00:00:34.230 --> 00:00:34.730 Yeah. 00:00:35.030 --> 00:00:35.270 Yeah. 00:00:35.270 --> 00:00:41.530 Well, I sort of always had kind of a a latent desire, I would say, for the last seven or eight years to pursue counseling. 00:00:42.035 --> 00:00:50.035 There were a lot of aspects of it that I was really drawn to and sort of came to a head when I was discerning religious life. 00:00:50.035 --> 00:00:53.815 And I was thinking about, we were actually trying to start a men's religious community. 00:00:54.355 --> 00:01:03.900 And in that, I had a great experience where I got to spend a month with doctor Bob Schutz doing a workshop for priests and seminarians on healing. 00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:11.500 And while I was there, I really became firm in my decision not only that I'd be leading my community, that I wanted to become a mental health counselor. 00:01:12.355 --> 00:01:15.395 So that was where I just knew where I really wanted to jump off to. 00:01:15.395 --> 00:01:17.155 And that was the first time I heard about DMU. 00:01:17.155 --> 00:01:23.175 I just approached doctor Shoots and some of the other counselors that he was bringing in to help with the month long workshop. 00:01:23.795 --> 00:01:28.130 And everybody unanimously said, the only place you need to look at is DMEO. 00:01:28.510 --> 00:01:35.890 Because they do the best they do the best of weaving in Catholic anthropology to real scientific based counseling practice. 00:01:35.950 --> 00:01:36.430 Okay. 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:39.950 So you were, how did you get interested in in the new order? 00:01:39.950 --> 00:01:44.495 Like, you were did you go were you out of college at that time or I was out of college. 00:01:44.495 --> 00:01:44.735 Yeah. 00:01:44.735 --> 00:01:46.255 So I'm 33 now. 00:01:46.255 --> 00:01:54.515 And when I was about 28, I approached a friend and a mentor of mine and said, hey, I wanna be a priest, but I I don't know where to pursue that. 00:01:54.900 --> 00:02:01.780 Because most people, it seems, when they have an interest in religious orders, that's an encounter that that came from their youth. 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:06.120 They had a history and I didn't have any of that because I converted to Catholicism when I was 23. 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:07.140 So Three. 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:07.185 Yeah. 00:02:07.345 --> 00:02:09.985 So when I was 28 years old, I decided that I wanted to be a priest. 00:02:09.985 --> 00:02:10.865 I didn't know how to do it. 00:02:10.865 --> 00:02:14.085 And he said, actually, I just happen to be starting a men's religious community. 00:02:14.385 --> 00:02:16.005 And so I became their first seminarian. 00:02:16.785 --> 00:02:21.270 And, she's a very close friend of mine and was a was a very, great mentor to me. 00:02:21.270 --> 00:02:22.750 He was my first spiritual director. 00:02:22.750 --> 00:02:23.970 She taught me about prayer. 00:02:24.430 --> 00:02:24.830 I did. 00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:28.610 She taught me about, Lectio Divina, the examine. 00:02:28.750 --> 00:02:33.390 So he'd always been a part of my spiritual life and it just seemed like a natural fit. 00:02:33.390 --> 00:02:36.130 And so that's sort of it just sort of blossomed down its own. 00:02:36.485 --> 00:02:40.005 And then were you practicing any faith before or did you No. 00:02:40.005 --> 00:02:40.165 No. 00:02:40.165 --> 00:02:41.545 I grew up in a secular household. 00:02:41.605 --> 00:02:44.185 My mom was in really into transcendental meditation. 00:02:45.285 --> 00:02:51.860 She was raised Catholic, left the church for forty years and came back when I was about 17. 00:02:52.640 --> 00:02:56.160 But when I was 10, I learned sitting meditation or walking meditation. 00:02:56.160 --> 00:03:00.820 When I was 13, I learned sitting meditation, sort of what you think traditional with your legs crossed. 00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:05.675 And it was when I was about 17 years old. 00:03:05.675 --> 00:03:11.215 She came back to the church, and then my two older brothers, my senior year of college, went through RCIA. 00:03:11.915 --> 00:03:15.375 And I started to sort of pick their brain and ask them about their faith encounter. 00:03:15.915 --> 00:03:21.980 And it sort of led me to the threshold of the church, and then I had a lot of working out of things to do from there. 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:23.320 That is so beautiful. 00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:29.640 God God has a path for each one of us, a particular way of revealing himself and leading us along that journey. 00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:30.200 Isn't that neat? 00:03:30.200 --> 00:03:30.920 It's something else. 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:31.900 You know, it's interesting. 00:03:32.935 --> 00:03:42.535 So you thought about priesthood, and then during that process, you saw this this need for mental health counseling and felt more called to that. 00:03:42.535 --> 00:03:42.935 Indeed. 00:03:42.935 --> 00:03:43.815 That's okay. 00:03:43.815 --> 00:03:44.215 Indeed. 00:03:44.215 --> 00:03:51.820 You know, it's one of the things some of our best students are former, seminarians and religious religious sisters and Yeah. 00:03:52.140 --> 00:03:53.420 And I think there's a connection. 00:03:53.420 --> 00:03:55.680 I think, sometimes focus missionaries. 00:03:57.100 --> 00:04:01.820 When people are working, people really wanna serve others in a deep way. 00:04:01.820 --> 00:04:02.320 Yeah. 00:04:03.395 --> 00:04:11.635 Obviously, one way to do that is as as being a member of the clergy, a priest, or a religious sister, a focus missionary. 00:04:11.635 --> 00:04:15.655 They certainly get a great taste of that two years out, working on the college campuses. 00:04:16.670 --> 00:04:32.445 But I think it also you know, it it if that's not ultimately what God is calling you to do, counseling and psychology is such a great way because you people are gonna open up to you with thing things they probably won't even tell priests sometimes. 00:04:32.445 --> 00:04:32.685 Right? 00:04:32.685 --> 00:04:39.485 They want kind of a neutral maybe they're afraid to tell a priest because they they wanna be judged or whatnot or they think the priest is gonna do that. 00:04:39.485 --> 00:04:39.885 Yeah. 00:04:39.885 --> 00:04:43.005 So but, really, it's serving people on such a deep level. 00:04:43.005 --> 00:04:43.325 Right. 00:04:43.565 --> 00:04:54.460 I think that's a I think that's a big we see this in many cases and, and many times, you know, those who have some experience or trying to figure out what God was calling them to do Yeah. 00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:57.700 End up doing very, very well in the field. 00:04:57.700 --> 00:04:58.020 Yeah. 00:04:58.020 --> 00:04:58.515 Yeah. 00:04:58.595 --> 00:05:09.895 For me it was sort of a very It was actually a kind of a practical process of saying okay, it's clear to me that God doesn't want me to be a priest, but let's look at some of the desires that I had towards priesthood. 00:05:09.955 --> 00:05:11.575 What was it that drew me to priesthood? 00:05:11.900 --> 00:05:14.400 And one of those things was definitely that pastoral relationship. 00:05:14.860 --> 00:05:16.300 And I didn't have to let that go. 00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:19.340 You know, there's a lot of those things that that God asked me to let go. 00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:20.380 That I didn't have to. 00:05:20.380 --> 00:05:22.720 And so I was happy to carry that into counseling practice. 00:05:22.940 --> 00:05:25.840 You know, Saint John Paul the second has a great quote. 00:05:26.085 --> 00:05:30.985 Something along, he talks about how, each human person person is really a mystery. 00:05:31.205 --> 00:05:31.525 Yeah. 00:05:31.525 --> 00:05:48.440 And he talks about how work of mental health professionals, connects you to the tangled web of the workings of the human heart and and how to how to help people make sense of their prior experiences, things they're going through, struggling with, and so forth. 00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:48.920 So Yeah. 00:05:49.080 --> 00:05:56.665 Yeah, really you really need, I mean, in a way, the priestly heart of Jesus and we're all, you know, we're all part of our baptism is right. 00:05:56.665 --> 00:05:58.905 We're all priest, king, and prophet. 00:05:58.905 --> 00:05:59.145 Yeah. 00:05:59.145 --> 00:06:01.385 So great to be able to do that. 00:06:01.385 --> 00:06:01.865 Yeah. 00:06:01.865 --> 00:06:02.185 Yeah. 00:06:02.185 --> 00:06:11.620 And so you picked, DMU, be you you, because you heard from doctor Schutz and the others that who are working at that that great ministry Yeah. 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:13.220 They were they were recommending it. 00:06:13.220 --> 00:06:13.460 Yeah. 00:06:13.460 --> 00:06:15.220 I mean, that's definitely what peaked my interest. 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:17.480 And and I started looking at other institutions. 00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:23.320 And it seemed like most places really are offering what is essentially a secular counseling program. 00:06:24.075 --> 00:06:29.115 And this is the only place that I found that, you know, in our we call them PhD, it's philosophy. 00:06:29.115 --> 00:06:37.590 You know, in our PhD courses, you are really getting thorough, firmly rooted, magisterially faithful philosophy, catholic anthropology. 00:06:38.210 --> 00:06:48.130 And to me, particularly as I get further in the program, it's just so striking how our vision of what human flourishing looks like is essential to the practice of counseling. 00:06:48.130 --> 00:06:54.715 If we don't know if we can't agree on where we're going, and if there's not some consensus, then the practice is sort of aimless. 00:06:55.015 --> 00:07:02.395 And so to me, the idea of flourishing that's proposed both by DMU, but ultimately by the church, is the one that I wanna try to fulfill. 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:03.420 Yeah. 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:04.540 That that's, you know, it's a great point. 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:08.800 You know, what what is truly for the good of the person and where what's our goal in therapy? 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:10.060 Right. 00:07:10.060 --> 00:07:23.825 You know, make someone have a does this feel better for the short term or were you trying to lead them a life that's gonna be fulfilling a life that has, an eternal destiny, and a life that, you know, we're we're fulfilled in virtue and things like that. 00:07:23.965 --> 00:07:24.465 Yeah. 00:07:24.605 --> 00:07:27.405 So you're how long are you now in the counseling program? 00:07:27.405 --> 00:07:29.485 I'm about halfway through the academic program. 00:07:29.485 --> 00:07:30.205 About halfway. 00:07:30.205 --> 00:07:30.445 Yeah. 00:07:30.445 --> 00:07:35.940 And how in the next few, you mentioned a little bit that you're you're learning more about the the human person. 00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:36.260 Yeah. 00:07:36.260 --> 00:07:39.000 What a human person is and what makes a person even happy. 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:39.560 Right. 00:07:40.260 --> 00:07:41.140 How are the teachers? 00:07:41.140 --> 00:07:42.200 How's everything been? 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:43.720 I mean, it's been fantastic. 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:46.900 I I have thoroughly enjoyed the program. 00:07:46.900 --> 00:07:48.975 For me, it's different because I do it part time. 00:07:48.975 --> 00:07:50.815 So I'm only taking one class at a time. 00:07:50.815 --> 00:07:53.475 And that's the pace I have to go at because I work full time. 00:07:54.495 --> 00:08:05.860 But it's a nice, it's a nice spread where we'll take a couple more counselling skills, you know, counselling theory, emphasis classes, and then we'll get a philosophy course. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.680 And so it's sort of like two or three counseling courses then a philosophy course. 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:15.140 And I like that pacing where we sprinkle in the anthropology as we go and sort of continue to lay the foundation. 00:08:15.795 --> 00:08:15.955 Yes. 00:08:15.955 --> 00:08:16.915 So that's that's, yeah. 00:08:16.915 --> 00:08:17.875 There's the part time out. 00:08:17.875 --> 00:08:18.115 Right? 00:08:18.115 --> 00:08:23.075 So if you're working full time it still is possible and you're able to you're able to make that work with your It does work. 00:08:23.075 --> 00:08:23.715 It does work. 00:08:23.715 --> 00:08:29.610 I mean, it's it's sort of one of those things where if you commit to do a few hours a day in your evenings, absolutely possible. 00:08:29.830 --> 00:08:31.830 And so what are your plans when you get your degree? 00:08:31.830 --> 00:08:34.730 Do you have an idea what what you wanna do with this degree? 00:08:34.950 --> 00:08:40.170 Well, I'm, you know, I'm I'm trying to be realistic about that, but I've sort of always just wanted to have private practice. 00:08:41.585 --> 00:08:49.045 I worked, so I was in the working world before I ever pursued priesthood, and so I think I acquired just enough of those business skills to be able to run my own shop. 00:08:49.105 --> 00:08:50.805 And that's really what I'd like to do. 00:08:51.425 --> 00:09:07.150 And I really liked being able to just sort of control my own destiny, not be subject to other influences, and really just have more pure relationships with my with my clients and just be able to serve them without any sort of answering to anyone else other than to them and God. 00:09:07.675 --> 00:09:09.275 Right, so running your own shop. 00:09:09.275 --> 00:09:09.675 Yeah. 00:09:09.675 --> 00:09:12.075 Yeah, and you're up in the New York, New Jersey area. 00:09:12.075 --> 00:09:12.575 Yep. 00:09:12.635 --> 00:09:18.555 And, I'd imagine there's plenty plenty of people out there, who are gonna need your help. 00:09:18.555 --> 00:09:19.035 Indeed. 00:09:19.035 --> 00:09:19.435 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:19.435 --> 00:09:25.530 We have an interesting blend too because in my in my community there's heavy Hispanic population so it's a good thing I speak Spanish. 00:09:25.990 --> 00:09:33.610 And and I think that's, a community that presents a growing need in our country as we see that population continue to grow so rapidly. 00:09:33.910 --> 00:09:36.490 So that might be a part of my future as well. 00:09:36.550 --> 00:09:43.005 Any any words for, someone who might be considering this career and maybe they're on the fence and they're not quite sure. 00:09:43.465 --> 00:09:43.625 Yeah. 00:09:43.625 --> 00:09:45.565 Any any advice you might give? 00:09:45.785 --> 00:09:46.025 Yeah. 00:09:46.025 --> 00:09:51.385 I mean, you know, for me, it's a big part of it was paying attention to what people were saying around me. 00:09:51.385 --> 00:09:53.965 Not so just as far as taking their feedback. 00:09:54.185 --> 00:10:00.880 I I had a number of people say, you know, wow, you're you you you know, have you considered something in counseling or something like that? 00:10:00.880 --> 00:10:02.740 And I think that that shouldn't be ignored. 00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:05.140 So that was kind of helpful to kinda get the ball rolling. 00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:07.705 And then, start to look at the program. 00:10:07.925 --> 00:10:10.425 And start to look at programs, look at their curriculum. 00:10:10.965 --> 00:10:13.785 See if those, even just the names of the courses are interesting. 00:10:14.005 --> 00:10:15.705 You know, does it appeal to you? 00:10:16.005 --> 00:10:25.740 And then, I also bought the CCMMP before I was a student, and just sort of, I mean, it's a it's it's a hard it's an intimidating read, I think, for most people. 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:34.605 But once I really started to get through it and I sort of started to form a little bit of what I thought their picture of the human person looked like, it made me very excited to be a part of that. 00:10:34.925 --> 00:10:40.685 So I think that those for me, particularly as far as landing at DMU, were sort of three essential pieces. 00:10:40.685 --> 00:10:43.665 Yeah well with the CCMMP of course is our textbook. 00:10:43.965 --> 00:10:44.125 Yeah. 00:10:44.365 --> 00:10:49.920 We have a new nickname for it, the model for human flourishing, but it's all about what the what a human what makes a human person. 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:50.427 Yeah. 00:10:50.427 --> 00:10:51.520 So, yeah. 00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:51.760 Yeah. 00:10:51.760 --> 00:10:52.320 You mentioned that. 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:53.520 That's a great point. 00:10:53.920 --> 00:11:05.045 Actually, what helped me in my own discernment of the priesthood, you know, the are you the kind of person sometimes people come and ask you questions or unload or tell you what's really going on deep in their in your heart. 00:11:06.145 --> 00:11:09.025 And for some reason, I had a few people doing that to me. 00:11:09.025 --> 00:11:14.225 You know, maybe that's a sign, you know, that God wants me to be able to serve people on a different level. 00:11:14.225 --> 00:11:17.610 And I think it could be it could be also a sign for those who are considering. 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:21.930 I you you know, that your friends confide things to you or your family members. 00:11:21.930 --> 00:11:26.730 Like, you know, that could be a real sign that that you have a gift for this field. 00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:26.890 Yeah. 00:11:26.890 --> 00:11:27.050 Yeah. 00:11:27.050 --> 00:11:35.205 I absolutely agree with that too because like I said, that I mean, I I that's an essential part of paying attention to the people around you and, you know, you make a great point. 00:11:35.205 --> 00:11:39.685 And by the grace of God, I come to a program that also emphasizes learning how to listen a little better. 00:11:39.685 --> 00:11:40.005 Yeah. 00:11:40.005 --> 00:11:41.365 Is that that's pretty helpful. 00:11:41.365 --> 00:11:42.405 That's what we all need to learn. 00:11:42.405 --> 00:11:43.445 But I but find that. 00:11:43.445 --> 00:11:43.685 Yeah. 00:11:43.685 --> 00:11:46.340 But it it it it if you work at it, it's not that hard. 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:46.580 No. 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:46.980 It's not. 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:47.940 You know, you just have to learn. 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:48.460 He's a long time. 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:49.540 I said, what are you talking about? 00:11:49.540 --> 00:11:50.100 You don't do it. 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:51.220 But it it you know. 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:51.700 Yeah. 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:52.200 Right. 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:54.500 Well, Logan, thank you very much. 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:54.820 Yeah. 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:57.140 Great talking to you and and God bless you and your work. 00:11:57.140 --> 00:12:02.665 And we'll be praying for your success, in the program and also with the big ideas you have for the future. 00:12:02.665 --> 00:12:02.825 No. 00:12:02.825 --> 00:12:03.465 I appreciate that. 00:12:03.465 --> 00:12:04.437 Thank you for having me. 00:12:04.517 --> 00:12:05.037 Take care. 00:12:05.037 --> 00:12:05.717 God bless. 00:12:05.717 --> 00:12:06.117 Thank you. 00:12:06.117 --> 00:12:06.777 Bye bye.