WEBVTT 00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:22.115 So this is father Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University and, had the blessing and privilege here that he'll be joined with, by two of our graduates from our spiritual direction certificate program. 00:00:22.115 --> 00:00:28.055 We have Donna Garrett and her husband, Jeff Garrett, from the great state of Nebraska. 00:00:29.070 --> 00:00:31.090 Welcome and thank you for joining us. 00:00:31.150 --> 00:00:32.050 Thank you, father. 00:00:32.830 --> 00:00:36.590 So, spiritual direction. 00:00:36.590 --> 00:00:36.830 Right? 00:00:36.830 --> 00:00:41.490 It's it's it's one of those things Pope Benedict once said, everybody needs a spiritual director. 00:00:41.975 --> 00:00:44.955 And it made me think, you know, wow. 00:00:45.575 --> 00:00:57.890 If, if only priests were spiritual directors, there wouldn't be too many you know, we'd be so first of all, if we if people went to confession as the church asked us, priest probably wouldn't do anything else. 00:00:57.890 --> 00:00:58.390 Right? 00:00:58.610 --> 00:01:04.770 So we spiritual direct how do we do spiritual direction when there's so many people who would need it? 00:01:05.730 --> 00:01:11.090 And so DMU started the spiritual direction program, and we've got laypeople who are doing it. 00:01:11.090 --> 00:01:15.905 And just wanted to first, just get your thoughts, Donna and Jeff. 00:01:16.285 --> 00:01:25.185 What makes spiritual direction important to you, and why do you as a layperson wanna go to spiritual director or think people should have spiritual directors? 00:01:27.260 --> 00:01:32.880 The main reason that I think a layperson would wanna go to a spiritual direction is to grow closer to Christ. 00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:42.945 I that's one of the objectives of spiritual direction is to help you grow in your relationship with Christ and develop further in your spiritual life. 00:01:43.805 --> 00:01:50.305 So think often as we're going forward in our spiritual journey, we can have blind spots that we ourselves cannot see. 00:01:50.525 --> 00:02:02.490 And having a spiritual director who understands how God is working in my individual life helps me to avoid those pitfalls, or blind spots and to move forward into holiness. 00:02:03.270 --> 00:02:03.750 Right. 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:03.990 Yeah. 00:02:03.990 --> 00:02:05.590 So we're all we're all called to be holy. 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:08.170 We're all called to be sane, so we need guidance. 00:02:08.230 --> 00:02:08.730 Right? 00:02:10.435 --> 00:02:14.615 So what what got you motivated to want to become spiritual directors? 00:02:16.915 --> 00:02:23.740 Well, one of the first things is, as you mentioned earlier, their priests are so busy. 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:33.280 It's like, in our diocese, we found that it was really hard to get a spiritual director because most of the priests that did it, they were very busy with spiritual direction. 00:02:33.420 --> 00:02:37.440 And with all their other duties, they didn't have time to take on new people. 00:02:37.895 --> 00:02:49.275 So I saw it as a great opportunity to fill that gap and to provide it from a layperson standpoint to give it to other men. 00:02:51.030 --> 00:02:59.130 I think I've always felt that need to, grow closer to Christ, but also to help others grow closer to Christ. 00:02:59.350 --> 00:03:13.805 Jeff and I have four children that are now young adults, and we as as we were parenting our children, moving towards adolescence in high school, we realized there were a lot of voices speaking into our children, and not all of them were people of faith. 00:03:14.025 --> 00:03:25.160 So we really felt motivated to become trained, as spiritual directors to offer that to the church, but also to help us parent and and accompany our own children. 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:26.100 Yeah. 00:03:26.100 --> 00:03:33.140 So so your own experience kinda led of of, I guess, being a directee led you to wanna give that and share that with others. 00:03:33.140 --> 00:03:33.640 Absolutely. 00:03:33.700 --> 00:03:34.200 Absolutely. 00:03:34.260 --> 00:03:34.760 Yeah. 00:03:35.305 --> 00:03:35.625 Okay. 00:03:35.625 --> 00:03:41.245 And so and then you signed up and you did the the Divine Mercy University spiritual direction program. 00:03:43.065 --> 00:03:44.105 How how did that go? 00:03:44.105 --> 00:03:46.285 What was your experience, with the program? 00:03:47.380 --> 00:03:54.100 So when Jeff and I signed up to do the spiritual direction program, we, we were very blessed to be able to do it together. 00:03:54.100 --> 00:04:13.085 So we took the different modules together, and for us, it was a great opportunity to grow in our our married life because we were praying and discussing the themes of spiritual direction, holiness, methods of prayer, great tools for listening together. 00:04:13.465 --> 00:04:18.260 So it was a beautiful experience for our marriage to to have the program together. 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.580 I'm favorable to have some great discussions, as going through the program. 00:04:23.440 --> 00:04:30.495 And if I had questions and I wasn't quite sure on something, Donna I would ask Donna and vice versa. 00:04:31.915 --> 00:04:32.155 Yeah. 00:04:32.155 --> 00:04:33.355 Well, that's almost unfair. 00:04:33.355 --> 00:04:34.395 It just makes it too easy. 00:04:34.395 --> 00:04:38.555 You have you go home and talk about all these things or or just, share your experience. 00:04:38.555 --> 00:04:40.075 But what a yeah. 00:04:40.075 --> 00:04:43.935 What a blessing to be able to do it together and learn even more. 00:04:44.750 --> 00:05:05.145 And I think as a as a married couple, it also gave us a greater, and deeper appreciation a greater understanding and a deeper appreciation of how God works in the lives of men and women, how how he works differently, and how each of those ways, it just enriches the relationship itself. 00:05:06.325 --> 00:05:15.305 What do you think, what do you think are some of the obstacles for people, to seek a spiritual director? 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:31.100 I mean, they want maybe some people don't even think about it, but are there people who just, like, don't are kinda hesitant to come or don't really wanna what what do you think are the biggest, obstacles, and and what's a good strategy to overcome them? 00:05:31.935 --> 00:05:32.835 Don't you ask? 00:05:32.895 --> 00:05:33.135 Yeah. 00:05:33.135 --> 00:05:35.075 Mutual men, time. 00:05:35.535 --> 00:05:35.855 Right? 00:05:35.855 --> 00:05:42.755 There's a there's we're always a little bit afraid of being over committed, and spiritual direction requires commitment. 00:05:42.895 --> 00:05:45.720 It's it's never a once and done thing. 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:49.740 It's it's you're accompanying somebody or you're journeying with somebody. 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:52.060 So one is making that time commitment. 00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:54.220 And two is it's vulnerability. 00:05:55.160 --> 00:06:07.385 It's actually letting somebody in to the most intimate part of your life, which is your relationship with Jesus Christ, and helping you to to really listen deeply to what the Holy Spirit is doing in your life. 00:06:07.385 --> 00:06:09.725 And for some people, that that's intimidating. 00:06:11.460 --> 00:06:18.840 Out because with men, we don't wanna bear our spiritual lives to somebody else and unpack that. 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:20.020 It's a little bit harder. 00:06:20.020 --> 00:06:22.840 You like to keep things private and and to the vest. 00:06:23.145 --> 00:06:31.805 And a lot of times I found with men that come to me, it's usually, well, this priest or that priest told me that I should get a spiritual director. 00:06:32.825 --> 00:06:37.725 And that's the time when they start looking for somebody is when somebody else had mentioned it to them. 00:06:37.820 --> 00:06:47.600 On a rare occasion, you'll find somebody that will be looking for a spiritual director and because it's something that they feel that they need to progress in their spiritual life. 00:06:48.860 --> 00:07:06.890 One thing I felt, Divine Mercy University's program did was really give us the language to also help those who are seeking spiritual direction to put them at ease, to help them recognize that everything that is spoken about, between the directee and the director is confidential. 00:07:07.510 --> 00:07:15.370 Like, that that is a privileged place, to accompany that person, and and I cannot I can't share that with anybody. 00:07:15.865 --> 00:07:28.125 And so I think once, at least the women that I see, once they understand that level of of privacy and that level of commitment, they're much more willing and open to share what God's doing in their life. 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:32.620 We're keeping, like, a a creating a safe place to talk about these things. 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:33.180 Yes. 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:33.640 Yeah. 00:07:33.640 --> 00:07:37.400 You know, people are so just looking for connection. 00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:41.340 People are so lonely and, disconnected today. 00:07:42.115 --> 00:07:44.115 And how do we help them connect with the Lord? 00:07:44.115 --> 00:07:44.355 Right? 00:07:44.355 --> 00:07:49.015 It's just a great great project here and great work that you're doing. 00:07:49.155 --> 00:07:57.580 Tell me a little bit about what what you're doing now that you've you've finished the, the certificate program two, three years ago? 00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:00.700 And what have you been doing since with with the certificate? 00:08:01.960 --> 00:08:04.200 Well, I've been giving spiritual direction to men. 00:08:04.200 --> 00:08:07.000 I I don't give spiritual direction to women myself. 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.385 I stick to just men, and I have that boundary set for myself. 00:08:12.085 --> 00:08:20.585 And then, also, we've had the opportunity to work with Benedictine College and work with the students there in the campus ministry department. 00:08:22.070 --> 00:08:29.030 So that's been a fantastic opportunity and given us an opportunity to work with young men and young women. 00:08:29.030 --> 00:08:30.250 Donna works with the women. 00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:31.110 Yeah. 00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:41.975 So I have been blessed to offer spiritual direction to, women that I meet in my in Omaha, Nebraska, but also, the beauty of the the virtual world. 00:08:42.355 --> 00:08:48.695 I have directees that I see all over The United States and Canada, and we connect virtually in spiritual direction. 00:08:49.120 --> 00:09:01.120 And then probably the thing that I appreciate the most is the apostolate that Jeff and I offer to Benedictine College where we go together, and we, and we give spiritual direction to the college students there. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:02.080 And, father, you're right. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:10.725 Like, the students show us firsthand how, how lonely and isolated people are today, especially our young adults. 00:09:10.725 --> 00:09:19.650 And they're all looking for the right way to do things, and they're so they're so concerned with making the wrong decisions that sometimes it's paralyzing. 00:09:20.190 --> 00:09:39.745 So to have a married couple who is also parents of young adult children, it's a safe place for them to come to ask those questions about their spiritual life, but maybe questions just about life in general and get and get good solid Catholic advice or or a safe place to talk to talk that through. 00:09:40.365 --> 00:09:41.985 Well, that that was that was interesting. 00:09:42.685 --> 00:09:48.000 So you're both working at Benedictine College, and then you live, a couple yeah. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.040 How far are you driving? 00:09:49.040 --> 00:09:50.160 Two and a half hours away. 00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:50.720 Two hours away. 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:51.520 How do you do that? 00:09:51.520 --> 00:09:54.500 How do you go up there every now and then, or what how's that work? 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:56.000 We'll go up there. 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:57.700 We'll go, actually, down there. 00:10:00.455 --> 00:10:00.695 Yeah. 00:10:00.695 --> 00:10:02.635 Once a month, we'll go down there. 00:10:02.855 --> 00:10:13.830 And it's usually we're going, like, on a Thursday, late afternoon, early evening, and then give a spiritual direction that evening, all day Friday, and then all day Saturday. 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:16.470 And sometimes into Sunday, and then we drive home. 00:10:16.530 --> 00:10:16.690 Yeah. 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:17.510 We drive home. 00:10:17.890 --> 00:10:25.730 So kinda what we were mentioning, Donna, like, it's kinda fascinating to me that these young people well, first, we wanna go to spiritual direction. 00:10:25.730 --> 00:10:30.675 But secondly, you know, with an older you're not old, but your your children are grown. 00:10:34.255 --> 00:10:41.570 One might think, well, if they wanna go to spirit, they want somebody who can understand them from their own cohort, but it seems like that's not that's not the case. 00:10:41.790 --> 00:10:42.110 Mhmm. 00:10:42.110 --> 00:10:49.810 That they are willing to go to you and see you as sort of mentors and older take advantage of your wisdom. 00:10:50.030 --> 00:10:50.530 Yes. 00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:51.310 Do it. 00:10:51.310 --> 00:10:51.810 Yeah. 00:10:52.525 --> 00:10:52.845 Okay. 00:10:52.845 --> 00:10:55.005 So you why why do you think that is? 00:10:55.005 --> 00:10:56.785 Now it seems to me like like counterculture. 00:10:57.805 --> 00:11:02.605 So it's very interesting because in a campus like Benedictine, the kids are very open. 00:11:02.605 --> 00:11:08.110 Like, they will openly share with their peer group what they're thinking about, maybe challenges they're having. 00:11:08.110 --> 00:11:21.575 Most of the kids on the campus are in bible studies or small faith sharing groups, but the challenge becomes they get a lot of advice from a lot of different people to the point where they're not sure what advice they should follow. 00:11:22.035 --> 00:11:29.655 So coming to a spiritual director actually helps them lay that out all on the table and be able to take back what they feel like is really theirs. 00:11:29.955 --> 00:11:39.790 So there's a there's a beautiful, place in our life for for our peers, our peer group, and their opinions, but there's also a a boundary we should put on that. 00:11:39.790 --> 00:11:52.345 And so I think Jeff and I help in that respect because we we can help them, sift through everything their peer group is is bringing to them and choose what what really is God's will for them. 00:11:53.365 --> 00:11:56.185 So, though, is that sounds like you're full time spiritual directors? 00:11:57.285 --> 00:11:57.765 No. 00:11:57.765 --> 00:11:58.265 No. 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:00.520 We both work full time. 00:12:00.520 --> 00:12:01.800 You have, like, full time job? 00:12:01.800 --> 00:12:02.920 We have full time jobs. 00:12:02.920 --> 00:12:03.240 Yes. 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.180 And then you have and you're seeing how many people a month, each one of you? 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:14.460 I'll see about when we do Benedictine, I'll see about 20 a month with with men and with the students. 00:12:14.935 --> 00:12:16.315 I see roughly 40. 00:12:16.455 --> 00:12:16.855 40. 00:12:16.855 --> 00:12:17.355 Okay. 00:12:17.815 --> 00:12:21.995 So you're probably about the limp working full time, you're probably about the limit of what you've been doing. 00:12:22.375 --> 00:12:26.615 I am, and that's actually concerning for me because I see the need is growing. 00:12:26.615 --> 00:12:30.430 We we are in a environment right now that's so hostile to Christianity. 00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:39.930 And, and people out there, not not just young adults, but everybody of every age group needs and is looking for a spiritual director. 00:12:39.930 --> 00:12:43.685 And and I myself get more requests than I can I can meet? 00:12:43.825 --> 00:12:47.845 So I'm always trying to find other spiritual directors who would be willing to see. 00:12:48.705 --> 00:12:49.205 Okay. 00:12:49.505 --> 00:12:53.105 So, yeah, so people are working full time job and you're kinda doing this for the lord. 00:12:53.105 --> 00:12:56.650 Is there apostolate and a growing need. 00:12:56.650 --> 00:12:59.050 You know, we're here in this interview. 00:12:59.050 --> 00:13:17.795 We're doing this during the National University of Congress where at a 50,000, tens of thousands of people here, and you could just sense, like, pretty much everyone here really believes deeply in our lord and and the teaching of the church. 00:13:18.415 --> 00:13:41.390 There's other things going on, you know, different movements but different if you look at the Hallow app, for example, there's a how that, interest in that has spiked and people wanting to discover more and more about their faith makes me wonder, you know, probably how many people out there who could really benefit, who are who are ready actually to go to spiritual direction, you know, and and the need I think we have for that. 00:13:41.635 --> 00:13:43.795 And I don't know if you see that in your your work. 00:13:43.795 --> 00:13:47.415 Is it kinda commenting like you're you're full now, but yeah. 00:13:47.475 --> 00:13:48.995 We see that a lot, father. 00:13:48.995 --> 00:14:00.130 We definitely need a lot more spiritual directors, and programs like DMU are fantastic, and there should be more laypeople that are becoming spiritual directors to meet that need. 00:14:00.270 --> 00:14:06.210 It usually starts with the spiritual conversations and then develops into spiritual direction. 00:14:07.885 --> 00:14:15.725 I think one of the greatest gifts that we as lay apostles in the church can give to the church is also recommending people. 00:14:15.725 --> 00:14:26.280 Like, I have peer groups of people who I I see would are great listeners, who are in love with Jesus Christ, who who are non intimidating in their approach to other people. 00:14:26.280 --> 00:14:33.215 And I have invited them to pray about, coming to DMU to be a spiritual director because the church is in great need. 00:14:33.215 --> 00:14:45.075 So we need people who are willing to be spiritual directors, but sometimes it's an invitation from a a peer who says, I think you'd be really good at this, and maybe you wanna check out a program. 00:14:45.375 --> 00:14:45.935 And yeah. 00:14:45.935 --> 00:14:49.340 And so what you both seem really passionate about this. 00:14:49.340 --> 00:14:52.160 So what makes you so passionate about being a spiritual director? 00:14:56.300 --> 00:14:58.320 I like to use this this phrase. 00:14:58.380 --> 00:15:10.165 For me, it's it's so humbling and so moving to have a front row seat into the lives of somebody else and to see what God's doing. 00:15:10.785 --> 00:15:22.860 God is so busy and so in love with His people, and when you are a spiritual director, you get to see the the breadth and the depth and the length of what God's willing to do to reach out to the people he loves. 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:29.660 And what I found, father, is that it's not me giving the spiritual direction. 00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:44.675 I'm just an instrument, And that, to me, is so powerful to experience that and be able to share those experiences and and share that holy spirit with the person that I'm giving spiritual direction to. 00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:53.070 So it's probably gonna sound corny, but, you know, it's kinda like you say, you know, the the one who gives gets more than the one who receives so many times. 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:57.150 And I think in my pastoral ministry, I can say that. 00:15:57.150 --> 00:16:09.585 I so many think, you know, just whatever it might be, preaching or confessions or spiritual direction, you you end up your faith is strong is stronger and strengthened by that, by seeing God's action in so many ways. 00:16:10.125 --> 00:16:12.990 And it sounds like you're experiencing that as well. 00:16:13.390 --> 00:16:13.890 Absolutely. 00:16:14.030 --> 00:16:26.655 And I know from from just from a personal perspective, I've had the grace of having a spiritual director for twenty five years, and and and I know that I would never be I would not be the same without it. 00:16:26.735 --> 00:16:32.435 It's been such a valuable asset to me, to my marriage, to the way that I've raised my children. 00:16:32.735 --> 00:16:35.875 And so I really want to be able to give that gift to other people. 00:16:36.255 --> 00:16:36.755 Yeah. 00:16:37.055 --> 00:16:40.515 And so if someone's interested, what, like, what are what are signs? 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:42.320 We'll just wrap up with this. 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:47.920 What are signs a person might be seeing in their lives that they could be that they actually could do this? 00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:50.160 They could they do have the qualities for it. 00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:55.140 Obviously, if someone mentioned it to you, but, like, what other kinds of signs would you say? 00:16:56.405 --> 00:17:04.585 The first thing I would say is a little bit what Jeff mentioned is that it really is a conversation between you and the directee and the holy spirit. 00:17:04.805 --> 00:17:07.545 And so it's it's not about what I say. 00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:15.070 So the person who might feel called to offer spiritual direction shouldn't be concerned about, well, I don't have eloquent speech. 00:17:15.070 --> 00:17:17.630 I don't I don't know scripture by heart. 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:20.450 I can't rattle off these very beautiful poems. 00:17:20.935 --> 00:17:22.295 It's really not about that. 00:17:22.295 --> 00:17:23.195 Can you listen? 00:17:23.975 --> 00:17:28.535 Can you listen to what God's doing in the heart of the person in front of you? 00:17:28.535 --> 00:17:33.575 Can you can you open your own mind and your own heart in prayer to that person? 00:17:33.575 --> 00:17:37.460 If you can do that, then then you can serve as a spiritual director. 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:49.620 I think one of the things would be that you feel an internal calling that that's something that you should do, that you're being called to do that because it is a discernment process. 00:17:49.995 --> 00:17:58.415 Even if you enroll in a program like DMU and you start the spiritual directional courses, doesn't mean that you're actually gonna end up a spiritual director. 00:17:59.435 --> 00:18:06.540 It because you're going to discern through the whole process whether God is calling you to be a spiritual director. 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:13.420 And it's through that process of discernment that you're gonna realize, yes, God is calling me to do this. 00:18:15.080 --> 00:18:17.185 Well, thank you, Donna and Jeff Garrett. 00:18:17.425 --> 00:18:27.685 It's been a great conversation, and, thank you so much, not just for this interview, but for all you do for the church and all for you for so many souls that god's put in your path. 00:18:27.985 --> 00:18:33.790 And you've been so more than generous over the years, and I just may God bless you for all you've done. 00:18:33.790 --> 00:18:34.770 Thank you, Violet. 00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:35.810 God bless.