So this is father Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University and, had the blessing and privilege here that he'll be joined with, by two of our graduates from our spiritual direction certificate program.
We have Donna Garrett and her husband, Jeff Garrett, from the great state of Nebraska.
Welcome and thank you for joining us.
Thank you, father.
So, spiritual direction.
Right?
It's it's it's one of those things Pope Benedict once said, everybody needs a spiritual director.
And it made me think, you know, wow.
If, if only priests were spiritual directors, there wouldn't be too many you know, we'd be so first of all, if we if people went to confession as the church asked us, priest probably wouldn't do anything else.
Right?
So we spiritual direct how do we do spiritual direction when there's so many people who would need it?
And so DMU started the spiritual direction program, and we've got laypeople who are doing it.
And just wanted to first, just get your thoughts, Donna and Jeff.
What makes spiritual direction important to you, and why do you as a layperson wanna go to spiritual director or think people should have spiritual directors?
The main reason that I think a layperson would wanna go to a spiritual direction is to grow closer to Christ.
I that's one of the objectives of spiritual direction is to help you grow in your relationship with Christ and develop further in your spiritual life.
So think often as we're going forward in our spiritual journey, we can have blind spots that we ourselves cannot see.
And having a spiritual director who understands how God is working in my individual life helps me to avoid those pitfalls, or blind spots and to move forward into holiness.
Right.
Yeah.
So we're all we're all called to be holy.
We're all called to be sane, so we need guidance.
Right?
So what what got you motivated to want to become spiritual directors?
Well, one of the first things is, as you mentioned earlier, their priests are so busy.
It's like, in our diocese, we found that it was really hard to get a spiritual director because most of the priests that did it, they were very busy with spiritual direction.
And with all their other duties, they didn't have time to take on new people.
So I saw it as a great opportunity to fill that gap and to provide it from a layperson standpoint to give it to other men.
I think I've always felt that need to, grow closer to Christ, but also to help others grow closer to Christ.
Jeff and I have four children that are now young adults, and we as as we were parenting our children, moving towards adolescence in high school, we realized there were a lot of voices speaking into our children, and not all of them were people of faith.
So we really felt motivated to become trained, as spiritual directors to offer that to the church, but also to help us parent and and accompany our own children.
Yeah.
So so your own experience kinda led of of, I guess, being a directee led you to wanna give that and share that with others.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so and then you signed up and you did the the Divine Mercy University spiritual direction program.
How how did that go?
What was your experience, with the program?
So when Jeff and I signed up to do the spiritual direction program, we, we were very blessed to be able to do it together.
So we took the different modules together, and for us, it was a great opportunity to grow in our our married life because we were praying and discussing the themes of spiritual direction, holiness, methods of prayer, great tools for listening together.
So it was a beautiful experience for our marriage to to have the program together.
I'm favorable to have some great discussions, as going through the program.
And if I had questions and I wasn't quite sure on something, Donna I would ask Donna and vice versa.
Yeah.
Well, that's almost unfair.
It just makes it too easy.
You have you go home and talk about all these things or or just, share your experience.
But what a yeah.
What a blessing to be able to do it together and learn even more.
And I think as a as a married couple, it also gave us a greater, and deeper appreciation a greater understanding and a deeper appreciation of how God works in the lives of men and women, how how he works differently, and how each of those ways, it just enriches the relationship itself.
What do you think, what do you think are some of the obstacles for people, to seek a spiritual director?
I mean, they want maybe some people don't even think about it, but are there people who just, like, don't are kinda hesitant to come or don't really wanna what what do you think are the biggest, obstacles, and and what's a good strategy to overcome them?
Don't you ask?
Yeah.
Mutual men, time.
Right?
There's a there's we're always a little bit afraid of being over committed, and spiritual direction requires commitment.
It's it's never a once and done thing.
It's it's you're accompanying somebody or you're journeying with somebody.
So one is making that time commitment.
And two is it's vulnerability.
It's actually letting somebody in to the most intimate part of your life, which is your relationship with Jesus Christ, and helping you to to really listen deeply to what the Holy Spirit is doing in your life.
And for some people, that that's intimidating.
Out because with men, we don't wanna bear our spiritual lives to somebody else and unpack that.
It's a little bit harder.
You like to keep things private and and to the vest.
And a lot of times I found with men that come to me, it's usually, well, this priest or that priest told me that I should get a spiritual director.
And that's the time when they start looking for somebody is when somebody else had mentioned it to them.
On a rare occasion, you'll find somebody that will be looking for a spiritual director and because it's something that they feel that they need to progress in their spiritual life.
One thing I felt, Divine Mercy University's program did was really give us the language to also help those who are seeking spiritual direction to put them at ease, to help them recognize that everything that is spoken about, between the directee and the director is confidential.
Like, that that is a privileged place, to accompany that person, and and I cannot I can't share that with anybody.
And so I think once, at least the women that I see, once they understand that level of of privacy and that level of commitment, they're much more willing and open to share what God's doing in their life.
We're keeping, like, a a creating a safe place to talk about these things.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, people are so just looking for connection.
People are so lonely and, disconnected today.
And how do we help them connect with the Lord?
Right?
It's just a great great project here and great work that you're doing.
Tell me a little bit about what what you're doing now that you've you've finished the, the certificate program two, three years ago?
And what have you been doing since with with the certificate?
Well, I've been giving spiritual direction to men.
I I don't give spiritual direction to women myself.
I stick to just men, and I have that boundary set for myself.
And then, also, we've had the opportunity to work with Benedictine College and work with the students there in the campus ministry department.
So that's been a fantastic opportunity and given us an opportunity to work with young men and young women.
Donna works with the women.
Yeah.
So I have been blessed to offer spiritual direction to, women that I meet in my in Omaha, Nebraska, but also, the beauty of the the virtual world.
I have directees that I see all over The United States and Canada, and we connect virtually in spiritual direction.
And then probably the thing that I appreciate the most is the apostolate that Jeff and I offer to Benedictine College where we go together, and we, and we give spiritual direction to the college students there.
And, father, you're right.
Like, the students show us firsthand how, how lonely and isolated people are today, especially our young adults.
And they're all looking for the right way to do things, and they're so they're so concerned with making the wrong decisions that sometimes it's paralyzing.
So to have a married couple who is also parents of young adult children, it's a safe place for them to come to ask those questions about their spiritual life, but maybe questions just about life in general and get and get good solid Catholic advice or or a safe place to talk to talk that through.
Well, that that was that was interesting.
So you're both working at Benedictine College, and then you live, a couple yeah.
How far are you driving?
Two and a half hours away.
Two hours away.
How do you do that?
How do you go up there every now and then, or what how's that work?
We'll go up there.
We'll go, actually, down there.
Yeah.
Once a month, we'll go down there.
And it's usually we're going, like, on a Thursday, late afternoon, early evening, and then give a spiritual direction that evening, all day Friday, and then all day Saturday.
And sometimes into Sunday, and then we drive home.
Yeah.
We drive home.
So kinda what we were mentioning, Donna, like, it's kinda fascinating to me that these young people well, first, we wanna go to spiritual direction.
But secondly, you know, with an older you're not old, but your your children are grown.
One might think, well, if they wanna go to spirit, they want somebody who can understand them from their own cohort, but it seems like that's not that's not the case.
Mhmm.
That they are willing to go to you and see you as sort of mentors and older take advantage of your wisdom.
Yes.
Do it.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you why why do you think that is?
Now it seems to me like like counterculture.
So it's very interesting because in a campus like Benedictine, the kids are very open.
Like, they will openly share with their peer group what they're thinking about, maybe challenges they're having.
Most of the kids on the campus are in bible studies or small faith sharing groups, but the challenge becomes they get a lot of advice from a lot of different people to the point where they're not sure what advice they should follow.
So coming to a spiritual director actually helps them lay that out all on the table and be able to take back what they feel like is really theirs.
So there's a there's a beautiful, place in our life for for our peers, our peer group, and their opinions, but there's also a a boundary we should put on that.
And so I think Jeff and I help in that respect because we we can help them, sift through everything their peer group is is bringing to them and choose what what really is God's will for them.
So, though, is that sounds like you're full time spiritual directors?
No.
We both work full time.
You have, like, full time job?
We have full time jobs.
Yes.
And then you have and you're seeing how many people a month, each one of you?
I'll see about when we do Benedictine, I'll see about 20 a month with with men and with the students.
I see roughly 40.
40.
Okay.
So you're probably about the limp working full time, you're probably about the limit of what you've been doing.
I am, and that's actually concerning for me because I see the need is growing.
We we are in a environment right now that's so hostile to Christianity.
And, and people out there, not not just young adults, but everybody of every age group needs and is looking for a spiritual director.
And and I myself get more requests than I can I can meet?
So I'm always trying to find other spiritual directors who would be willing to see.
Okay.
So, yeah, so people are working full time job and you're kinda doing this for the lord.
Is there apostolate and a growing need.
You know, we're here in this interview.
We're doing this during the National University of Congress where at a 50,000, tens of thousands of people here, and you could just sense, like, pretty much everyone here really believes deeply in our lord and and the teaching of the church.
There's other things going on, you know, different movements but different if you look at the Hallow app, for example, there's a how that, interest in that has spiked and people wanting to discover more and more about their faith makes me wonder, you know, probably how many people out there who could really benefit, who are who are ready actually to go to spiritual direction, you know, and and the need I think we have for that.
And I don't know if you see that in your your work.
Is it kinda commenting like you're you're full now, but yeah.
We see that a lot, father.
We definitely need a lot more spiritual directors, and programs like DMU are fantastic, and there should be more laypeople that are becoming spiritual directors to meet that need.
It usually starts with the spiritual conversations and then develops into spiritual direction.
I think one of the greatest gifts that we as lay apostles in the church can give to the church is also recommending people.
Like, I have peer groups of people who I I see would are great listeners, who are in love with Jesus Christ, who who are non intimidating in their approach to other people.
And I have invited them to pray about, coming to DMU to be a spiritual director because the church is in great need.
So we need people who are willing to be spiritual directors, but sometimes it's an invitation from a a peer who says, I think you'd be really good at this, and maybe you wanna check out a program.
And yeah.
And so what you both seem really passionate about this.
So what makes you so passionate about being a spiritual director?
I like to use this this phrase.
For me, it's it's so humbling and so moving to have a front row seat into the lives of somebody else and to see what God's doing.
God is so busy and so in love with His people, and when you are a spiritual director, you get to see the the breadth and the depth and the length of what God's willing to do to reach out to the people he loves.
And what I found, father, is that it's not me giving the spiritual direction.
I'm just an instrument, And that, to me, is so powerful to experience that and be able to share those experiences and and share that holy spirit with the person that I'm giving spiritual direction to.
So it's probably gonna sound corny, but, you know, it's kinda like you say, you know, the the one who gives gets more than the one who receives so many times.
And I think in my pastoral ministry, I can say that.
I so many think, you know, just whatever it might be, preaching or confessions or spiritual direction, you you end up your faith is strong is stronger and strengthened by that, by seeing God's action in so many ways.
And it sounds like you're experiencing that as well.
Absolutely.
And I know from from just from a personal perspective, I've had the grace of having a spiritual director for twenty five years, and and and I know that I would never be I would not be the same without it.
It's been such a valuable asset to me, to my marriage, to the way that I've raised my children.
And so I really want to be able to give that gift to other people.
Yeah.
And so if someone's interested, what, like, what are what are signs?
We'll just wrap up with this.
What are signs a person might be seeing in their lives that they could be that they actually could do this?
They could they do have the qualities for it.
Obviously, if someone mentioned it to you, but, like, what other kinds of signs would you say?
The first thing I would say is a little bit what Jeff mentioned is that it really is a conversation between you and the directee and the holy spirit.
And so it's it's not about what I say.
So the person who might feel called to offer spiritual direction shouldn't be concerned about, well, I don't have eloquent speech.
I don't I don't know scripture by heart.
I can't rattle off these very beautiful poems.
It's really not about that.
Can you listen?
Can you listen to what God's doing in the heart of the person in front of you?
Can you can you open your own mind and your own heart in prayer to that person?
If you can do that, then then you can serve as a spiritual director.
I think one of the things would be that you feel an internal calling that that's something that you should do, that you're being called to do that because it is a discernment process.
Even if you enroll in a program like DMU and you start the spiritual directional courses, doesn't mean that you're actually gonna end up a spiritual director.
It because you're going to discern through the whole process whether God is calling you to be a spiritual director.
And it's through that process of discernment that you're gonna realize, yes, God is calling me to do this.
Well, thank you, Donna and Jeff Garrett.
It's been a great conversation, and, thank you so much, not just for this interview, but for all you do for the church and all for you for so many souls that god's put in your path.
And you've been so more than generous over the years, and I just may God bless you for all you've done.
Thank you, Violet.
God bless.