WEBVTT 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:09.300 Divine Mercy University allows me to be myself. 00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:19.265 I can study the effect of abortion on the family without fearing, that my professors are going to judge me for my pro life stance. 00:00:19.485 --> 00:00:34.420 I love the fact that I am receiving an education that is grounded and rooted in Catholicism and Christianity, that as a clinician, helps me to view my client in their totality. 00:00:35.040 --> 00:00:37.940 Divine Mercy's preparation was outstanding. 00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:44.820 I didn't anticipate the personal transformation that would take place throughout the years that I've been here. 00:00:45.105 --> 00:00:51.365 I personally benefit from mentorship with academic advisor and clinical supervisors. 00:01:14.235 --> 00:01:15.195 What advice can we give? 00:01:15.195 --> 00:01:22.735 Because now some of these lockdowns and rules of the schools prevent young people from from from leaving their dorm or leaving their home. 00:01:23.115 --> 00:01:23.595 Mhmm. 00:01:23.595 --> 00:01:25.050 Any advice for those folks? 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:26.170 Yeah. 00:01:26.170 --> 00:01:30.190 That's a that's a challenging challenging question, challenging situation. 00:01:30.970 --> 00:01:47.665 So what's interesting, one of our data collections we did over the last few years, we looked at role of social support, perception of social support, and, which is really strong predictor of, feeling less depressed if I have a perception of good social support. 00:01:48.765 --> 00:01:52.945 Now during the pandemic, that might be challenging to live that out. 00:01:53.165 --> 00:01:53.665 Right? 00:01:54.205 --> 00:02:13.755 But it's also, I think, important to know that for the students to know themselves and for the screening, what we found, if somebody comes from an insecure attachment background, maybe difficult family background, comes from a background of not having had those secure, supportive relationship. 00:02:14.695 --> 00:02:19.175 That that really affects the way they they view their social support options. 00:02:19.175 --> 00:02:22.475 They might not see relationships as as supportive. 00:02:23.415 --> 00:02:26.055 So now I I could imagine we don't have data on that yet. 00:02:26.055 --> 00:02:28.940 In the pandemic, That would be even worse. 00:02:28.940 --> 00:02:29.440 Right? 00:02:29.660 --> 00:02:32.640 Because I'm not e I'm not even around people anymore. 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:42.885 If I already have that, thought of, well, probably relationships are not gonna help me as much, that never gets confirmed the other way because I'm around people. 00:02:42.885 --> 00:02:50.585 Maybe I'm not around people gives me an excuse to withdraw even more because of COVID, and I'm supposed to be isolated anyway. 00:02:51.125 --> 00:03:07.130 I noticed with my children during this, pandemic that they're obviously spending a lot of time on computers, but they're communicating with, people through the Internet, relatives, cousins, but also people they don't know, playing games and things like that. 00:03:07.130 --> 00:03:10.415 And and they refer to these people as their friends. 00:03:10.875 --> 00:03:16.575 And I sometimes think to myself, you know, what kind of friendship can you develop virtually? 00:03:16.635 --> 00:03:29.050 What is there any kind of, understanding about the difference between, let's say, a a personal, face to face relationship versus these virtual relationships? 00:03:29.110 --> 00:03:35.625 And, you know, what what are the the the the advantage or disadvantages of of of each? 00:03:35.625 --> 00:03:37.405 How do they compare, contrast? 00:03:38.105 --> 00:03:38.825 That's interesting. 00:03:38.825 --> 00:03:39.705 I I'm not sure. 00:03:39.705 --> 00:03:42.365 I think there's a growing body of literature. 00:03:42.745 --> 00:03:53.440 And, I mean, the pandemic just started in March, so it'll be interesting in the next year or two and what we learn about the effects on depression, on emotional well-being. 00:03:53.900 --> 00:04:03.260 What I was really interested in, in the research we did was, how does the role of faith and the walk with God play into this? 00:04:03.260 --> 00:04:03.760 Right? 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:11.505 This this a concept that's been kind of developed in the research literature over the last few years. 00:04:11.565 --> 00:04:18.060 It's called spiritual coping, and it really describes the ability to turn to God in times of stress. 00:04:19.020 --> 00:04:24.640 And do I have a walk of faith that helps me turn to God in times of stress? 00:04:25.580 --> 00:04:32.535 Or, in difficult times, do I have that cognition of God is punishing me, or he's not there for me? 00:04:33.015 --> 00:04:47.675 And we found that that piece is a is a huge link in how students deal with stressors, difficulties, and how are they able to cope with it, either positively or not so positive. 00:04:48.430 --> 00:04:48.670 Yeah. 00:04:48.670 --> 00:04:49.790 And that's a great point. 00:04:49.790 --> 00:04:57.890 What what role does faith play when someone who's really, say, clinically depressed, you know, from from a psychological clinical standpoint? 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:08.215 Do we need kind of both, obviously, faith is is is very important Mhmm. 00:05:08.335 --> 00:05:10.655 In helping us, counter that. 00:05:10.655 --> 00:05:16.010 But, also, do we also need therapy or or or counseling or just someone to talk to? 00:05:16.150 --> 00:05:18.950 And because there's some people you may see two extremes out there. 00:05:18.950 --> 00:05:24.730 You know, someone who just said, well, I just you know, that you just need to have faith and not be worried. 00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:31.885 You know, Saint Paul talks about putting our anxieties in God's hands, and that should, I'm not sure he means that to be a cure all. 00:05:31.885 --> 00:05:32.125 Right? 00:05:32.125 --> 00:05:36.065 And that's not that we don't have human relationships, that help us. 00:05:36.285 --> 00:05:41.405 How would you because the other extreme is just like, well, it's not really it's it's just, I'm good. 00:05:41.405 --> 00:05:45.210 I'm good in my faith, but I I it's really just a a human issue here. 00:05:46.410 --> 00:05:47.850 C demeanor needs a bit balanced. 00:05:47.850 --> 00:05:49.690 And would you would you would you agree with that? 00:05:49.690 --> 00:05:53.150 Is there, any kind of evidence or research that might support that? 00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:54.090 Yeah. 00:05:54.090 --> 00:05:55.290 I'm glad you brought that up. 00:05:55.290 --> 00:06:13.095 So, obviously, somebody struggling with clinical levels of depression, very, very important to seek help, very important to be in treatment, to seek out counseling, somebody who is trained in working with somebody who struggles with depression. 00:06:13.630 --> 00:06:17.310 So I would, say hugely important. 00:06:17.310 --> 00:06:17.790 Right? 00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:29.465 And and especially during the pandemic in this isolation, even more so important to have kinda mental health check-in, to make sure we're okay. 00:06:29.525 --> 00:06:30.025 Right? 00:06:30.325 --> 00:06:41.385 If we notice our thoughts going more and more in the negative, where the where the sad feelings kinda overtake most of the day, definitely warning signs to say, I need to reach out. 00:06:41.525 --> 00:06:41.765 Mhmm. 00:06:42.165 --> 00:07:04.555 What we were interested in is, you know and I think with that, just to follow-up, somebody who is in that will probably perceive God as less supportive, will be will have a hard time making use or having a positive role of faith because of the struggle with depression. 00:07:04.935 --> 00:07:06.695 So I think thank you for bringing that up. 00:07:06.695 --> 00:07:12.590 That's hugely important that we are not on our own thinking, I will just pray and I'll be good. 00:07:13.050 --> 00:07:14.750 That we seek help. 00:07:21.530 --> 00:07:27.205 Why do you think it's so hard for people to forgive and maybe sometimes it's easier to to hate? 00:07:27.205 --> 00:07:28.665 As you said, you mentioned hatred. 00:07:29.445 --> 00:07:32.745 Seems like, there's a lot of that out there in the world. 00:07:33.605 --> 00:07:34.245 Well, yes. 00:07:34.245 --> 00:07:40.460 I think, you know, hatred is something that has to be really seriously addressed. 00:07:40.520 --> 00:07:43.180 And first, I wanna make some distinctions. 00:07:43.640 --> 00:07:44.040 Mhmm. 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.900 Everybody gets angry often, for all kinds of reasons. 00:07:48.200 --> 00:07:55.025 Anger by itself that's elicited from something in the environment is how we're made, and it's not a sin. 00:07:55.485 --> 00:08:05.345 For example, screen it isn't that, you know, you do have to control it a little bit so you don't always blow up and cause your near and dear to get all disturbed. 00:08:05.565 --> 00:08:10.680 But, it's not harmful per se. 00:08:10.820 --> 00:08:12.580 And scripture is very clear about this. 00:08:12.580 --> 00:08:18.840 It says, be angry but sin not, or it says, don't let the sun go down on your anger. 00:08:19.285 --> 00:08:24.905 We're made so that we get angry over certain things that offend us and attack us and so forth. 00:08:25.125 --> 00:08:30.265 So anger by itself is something that should go away as the sun goes down. 00:08:31.125 --> 00:08:36.520 But hatred is different, and I'm only talking here about interpersonal hatred hatred of a person. 00:08:36.520 --> 00:08:38.780 And hatred is cultivated anger. 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:45.100 If you have a scenario in your head about how you're gonna get revenge, you have hatred. 00:08:45.475 --> 00:08:49.175 And if it's aimed at a person, that's interpersonal hatred. 00:08:49.955 --> 00:08:51.655 Now you're gonna get back at them. 00:08:52.195 --> 00:09:03.160 And interpersonal hatred is, I think, a long term psychological pathology, a long term harm to us psychologically. 00:09:05.380 --> 00:09:08.440 But, of course, people seem to like it, don't they? 00:09:08.660 --> 00:09:08.900 Yeah. 00:09:08.900 --> 00:09:10.980 How do they what do they how do they cultivate it? 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:12.475 I mean, it seems, you know, I don't know. 00:09:12.475 --> 00:09:13.595 Why why do you think that is? 00:09:13.595 --> 00:09:17.435 People seem to like Well, well, look, I'll give you some of the short term. 00:09:17.435 --> 00:09:17.675 Right. 00:09:17.675 --> 00:09:18.555 But go ahead. 00:09:18.555 --> 00:09:20.875 There are certain short term benefits from hatred. 00:09:20.875 --> 00:09:24.390 That's why it it it's kept itself so strong. 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:25.030 Strong. 00:09:25.030 --> 00:09:30.490 And, you know, interpersonal hatred and revenge is even the source of a lot of the greatest literature in history. 00:09:31.830 --> 00:09:36.810 Revenge is everything from the Iliad to Star Wars. 00:09:38.390 --> 00:09:41.815 So So we have to be aware of it as a major human condition. 00:09:42.755 --> 00:09:46.435 Why don't we, you know, how do I hate thee? 00:09:46.435 --> 00:09:48.295 Let me count the ways. 00:09:51.820 --> 00:09:59.040 Doctor Vitts, what are the short and long term consequences of, of hatred and the inability to forgive? 00:09:59.180 --> 00:10:05.100 I'll talk about the short term benefits of hatred first because that's why we that that that points out the problem. 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:05.600 Okay? 00:10:06.220 --> 00:10:06.525 Okay. 00:10:07.165 --> 00:10:11.725 If you hate something hate somebody, what benefits do you get? 00:10:11.725 --> 00:10:15.185 Well, one, you get the benefit of the of the sick role. 00:10:15.325 --> 00:10:15.905 You know? 00:10:16.445 --> 00:10:17.185 Poor me. 00:10:17.565 --> 00:10:20.870 I've been hurt, and I, you know, I hate this person. 00:10:21.410 --> 00:10:24.870 And and, everybody you get self pity. 00:10:26.930 --> 00:10:33.215 And the next thing you get from hatred is you often get friends who hate the same person. 00:10:33.275 --> 00:10:33.675 Mhmm. 00:10:33.675 --> 00:10:42.095 Now now they're not really friends, because friendship real friendship isn't based upon the fact that you have, the same person you hate. 00:10:42.475 --> 00:10:47.460 Real friends are based on the same person you love or on the same activity you love. 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:49.560 It seems like it provides an energy. 00:10:49.780 --> 00:10:51.780 Oh, you know, we you know, I was a kid growing up. 00:10:51.780 --> 00:10:52.820 You know, I'm from Baltimore. 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:55.080 We hated the Yankees, you know, and Yeah. 00:10:55.620 --> 00:10:56.020 Union. 00:10:56.020 --> 00:10:57.480 You felt part of a group. 00:10:57.620 --> 00:10:58.500 Is that what you mean? 00:10:58.500 --> 00:10:59.115 Stuff like that? 00:10:59.115 --> 00:10:59.235 Yeah. 00:10:59.235 --> 00:11:00.115 That's part of a group. 00:11:00.115 --> 00:11:02.775 Now it's not so bad when you're hating the Yankees. 00:11:02.835 --> 00:11:06.295 You're not hating necessarily individuals personally. 00:11:06.595 --> 00:11:06.915 Alright. 00:11:06.915 --> 00:11:08.135 Well You know what I mean? 00:11:08.275 --> 00:11:08.775 Yes. 00:11:08.835 --> 00:11:11.795 But, you know, this is exactly what school spirit is about. 00:11:11.795 --> 00:11:14.535 You all get together and hate the enemy for a weekend. 00:11:14.630 --> 00:11:15.130 Right? 00:11:15.190 --> 00:11:15.590 Right. 00:11:15.750 --> 00:11:19.110 You hate the other team for a weekend, and then you forget it. 00:11:19.110 --> 00:11:20.390 I'm not talking about that. 00:11:20.390 --> 00:11:31.105 I'm talking where you have a real interpersonal hatred of some person, which is showing up a lot on our politics today, but on both sides of the Right. 00:11:31.185 --> 00:11:32.085 Of the spectrum. 00:11:33.265 --> 00:11:38.165 But that in you get the benefit of having other people who hate the same person. 00:11:38.945 --> 00:11:50.910 You get, the self pity role of, you know, you you're a victim, and you get a certain feeling of energy from having the activated, the energy of hatred. 00:11:50.910 --> 00:11:53.090 You you feel yourself being energized. 00:11:54.190 --> 00:12:00.585 And finally, and this is the big short term benefit, you feel morally superior to that person. 00:12:01.525 --> 00:12:02.085 Oh, boy. 00:12:02.085 --> 00:12:05.385 Do you feel morally superior to your political enemies. 00:12:06.245 --> 00:12:09.860 And, that makes you feel, you know, good. 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.220 So those are the short term benefits. 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:20.980 And you have to know about them in psychology because you then have to confront the person about what are the long term pathologies. 00:12:21.680 --> 00:12:28.795 Because to hold on to interpersonal hatred for the long term is is extraordinarily harmful to the person, to you. 00:12:29.495 --> 00:12:31.335 I'm not even talking about forgiveness now. 00:12:31.335 --> 00:12:37.755 I'm just talking about if you allow yourself to be filled with hatred, it's gonna pickle you. 00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:44.000 Now pickle is not a psychological term with much precision, but I think we all know what it is. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:50.180 It turns you into this wizened, bitter, resentful individual. 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.060 But let's look at it more particularly. 00:12:56.995 --> 00:13:06.855 For example, if you're take the person who likes the sick role, and they like to feel sorry for themselves because they've been hurt by this bad person. 00:13:09.290 --> 00:13:15.290 Well, the sick role is just a way of excusing yourself for not having a life. 00:13:15.290 --> 00:13:20.990 It's a way of saying, look, you can't I'm the adult child of an alcoholic parent. 00:13:21.290 --> 00:13:23.525 You can't expect much from me. 00:13:24.545 --> 00:13:37.320 And then you go to a to a, you know, a support group where you have a pity party, and each one tries to explain how their father or their mother was a worse parent than the other ones. 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:39.660 And that's why you're no good. 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:44.600 Well, your life is you can see that nothing positive is coming out of that. 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.340 You're wasting your life in a self pity role. 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:59.315 The next thing about hating and getting friends because you you each hate the same person, like, you know, your boyfriend drop, you know, drops you. 00:13:59.315 --> 00:14:08.310 And so you call the the girlfriend he had before you, and you can both agree that the boyfriend is a is is a complete bastard or something like that. 00:14:08.530 --> 00:14:13.110 But you're not gonna be made of you don't make friends with people who have the common enemy. 00:14:14.930 --> 00:14:18.070 Friends are based upon something you you love in common. 00:14:18.815 --> 00:14:25.615 Real friends love the same activities, love the same people, love the same sports, love the same food or whatever. 00:14:25.615 --> 00:14:28.595 You know, real friends have something they love in common. 00:14:28.975 --> 00:14:32.035 And somebody you hate in common, you can't trust that person. 00:14:32.335 --> 00:14:34.380 You don't have anything in common but your hatred. 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:36.960 That's not a real friendship. 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:42.400 So you're giving up real friendships to have friends with people who have the same hatred. 00:14:43.660 --> 00:14:49.120 And as far as the energy goes, well, look, what does the energy of revenge do? 00:14:49.915 --> 00:14:52.075 It makes you incompetent in anything else. 00:14:52.075 --> 00:14:57.295 You're just so filled with revenge that you're not doing anything constructive with all that energy. 00:15:04.030 --> 00:15:15.650 We're gonna be talking, specifically about post traumatic stress disorder, and and that's a topic you hear a lot about today, especially with regards to the military soldiers. 00:15:15.790 --> 00:15:20.085 But, from what I've learned, it it really goes far beyond that. 00:15:20.085 --> 00:15:24.345 Can you can you talk about, you know, the the different causes of PTSD? 00:15:24.885 --> 00:15:29.285 Well, PTSD comes about in a lot of different, realms. 00:15:29.285 --> 00:15:45.890 Basically, it's an exposure to any type of trauma, that you have a a reactive sense of trying to, basically, trying to protect your life. 00:15:47.795 --> 00:15:52.035 And it can come in a like I said, a variety of forms. 00:15:52.035 --> 00:15:53.975 You are are exposed to trauma. 00:15:54.995 --> 00:16:01.360 You hear stories, constant hearing of stories, about trauma. 00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:13.360 So people that are firefighters or police officers or EMTs that are constantly seeing and hearing just gruesome stories are very susceptible to developing PTSD. 00:16:15.025 --> 00:16:24.405 Sexual trauma, physical trauma such as child abuse or, any domestic violence. 00:16:25.825 --> 00:16:46.595 So these are typical typical ways, but I've seen people who have experienced, say, a loss of, death, the death of a loved one, a very close loved one, and had just a a a such a severe reaction to it, that they developed symptoms of PTSD. 00:16:46.975 --> 00:16:53.075 So, again, it's being exposed to a trauma in some way and then that reaction to it. 00:16:54.255 --> 00:17:01.910 What, what would be some of those symptoms, doctor Keyes, if if we had family members who maybe we think something might not be right? 00:17:01.910 --> 00:17:03.930 And, how would you detect that? 00:17:04.790 --> 00:17:12.570 You know, I've always found it amazing how how God has made the complexity of who we are as people. 00:17:13.215 --> 00:17:18.595 And it PTSD is really a protective reaction, if you will. 00:17:19.295 --> 00:17:35.960 The the idea is that it it it protects us, from having, at least at the moment, to experience, just the the full range and the depth of, the trauma that we may be in. 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:48.655 For instance, in a, car accident, just the the severe amount of pain that people might go through from a car accident, it's like a a switch being, turned off. 00:17:49.515 --> 00:17:54.415 And so they wake up in the hospital and they might have, say, amnesia. 00:17:54.555 --> 00:17:56.335 They can't remember the accident. 00:17:58.610 --> 00:18:01.590 But over time, they start getting what's called flashbacks. 00:18:02.370 --> 00:18:09.590 In other words, little pieces of the accident start to filter in to our conscious thought. 00:18:13.295 --> 00:18:22.915 Any type of intrusion like that, whether it's a flashback or what we call memory intrusion, where you just have a thought about something and you can't shake it. 00:18:23.695 --> 00:18:31.450 And the thoughts are usually around what what has happened to us or pictures of what has happened to us. 00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:40.410 So any type of memory intrusion, thought intrusion, like the flashback or the memory intrusion, sometimes it shows up in dreams. 00:18:42.305 --> 00:18:45.685 Reaction to triggers, things that remind us of the trauma. 00:18:46.145 --> 00:18:48.085 So we react to the trauma. 00:18:48.225 --> 00:18:54.705 We we might get a smell of something that reminds us of what we went through. 00:18:54.705 --> 00:19:02.140 And all of a sudden, we have just our our thoughts flood with the memory of what happened. 00:19:04.120 --> 00:19:05.420 Maybe it's a taste. 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.100 Maybe, it it's usually, has to do with one of our senses. 00:19:10.745 --> 00:19:17.645 So reacting or reacting to the triggers, one of the other symptoms tends to be we isolate. 00:19:17.705 --> 00:19:22.445 We tend to, think that what do I do with this? 00:19:22.505 --> 00:19:23.385 What's going on? 00:19:23.385 --> 00:19:24.525 So we hibernate. 00:19:24.665 --> 00:19:25.440 We don't go out. 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:26.900 We don't connect to people. 00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:28.020 We withdraw. 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:36.500 Something that's called hyperarousal, where we're kind of, waiting for the next shoe to drop. 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.020 We're constantly on guard for safety. 00:19:41.015 --> 00:19:50.475 And then the emotional volatility, that reacts with our mood, sometimes we're up, sometimes we're down. 00:19:51.255 --> 00:19:56.190 We just don't have a handle on how volatile our emotions are. 00:19:56.510 --> 00:20:04.210 And that's really the five main symptoms that go, that that sort of make the cluster of post traumatic stress disorder. 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:10.850 How would a therapist, begin to deal with something like that if it's identified and diagnosed? 00:20:10.990 --> 00:20:15.015 It seems like, it's a complicated situation. 00:20:15.555 --> 00:20:20.535 What what are some of the therapies that would, would alleviate those symptoms? 00:20:20.835 --> 00:20:24.535 I think it's always a complicated situation when somebody has PTSD. 00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:40.730 Back in the day when when it was first introduced, PTSD was the very first diagnosis that was introduced into our coding system based on outside symptoms. 00:20:42.055 --> 00:20:44.555 Everything else up to that point had been biological. 00:20:45.815 --> 00:20:51.275 And it came with another disorder called post traumatic stress disorder. 00:20:52.375 --> 00:21:04.150 And post traumatic stress disorder and post traumatic, PTSD are, and acute stress, excuse me, are are basically the same diagnosis, if you will. 00:21:04.150 --> 00:21:12.635 Acute stress is the first thirty days that you have the symptoms, and then anything after thirty days is called post traumatic stress disorder. 00:21:13.495 --> 00:21:20.935 And to treat that, it's it's a combination, of a variety of things. 00:21:20.935 --> 00:21:26.080 First of all, the bonding between the therapist and the client is essential. 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:37.200 So the rapport and the, the trust in the relationship has got to be there for, this to be effective. 00:21:38.195 --> 00:21:53.960 And really from a wide variety of theories and techniques, the, the the main, treatment module right now is what we call exposure therapy. 00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:59.640 Basically, we expose the person to the trauma that they have already experienced. 00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:10.485 And we work systematically through the feelings and the emotions and the reactions to the trauma that they experienced. 00:22:11.345 --> 00:22:16.005 It is a very long and painstakingly difficult process. 00:22:18.465 --> 00:22:22.545 Today, however, we have a lot of new therapies that have come on the market. 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.740 Something like EMDR, eye movement desensitization reprocessing. 00:22:28.760 --> 00:22:42.815 It's it's a very long name for a simple technique of, sort of getting the right brain and the left brains integrated together, to process what has happened in the trauma. 00:22:43.995 --> 00:22:49.775 And it we have found that it speeds the therapy process up considerably. 00:22:50.400 --> 00:23:01.700 So what used to take, say, three or four years to get well from, people are, recovering anywhere from, six to eighteen months. 00:23:03.105 --> 00:23:10.325 So it it really has added a lot, although not everybody can use that technique. 00:23:10.385 --> 00:23:12.405 It has a lot to do with the person. 00:23:12.785 --> 00:23:17.365 It has a lot to do with how stable they are or how reactive they are. 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:25.420 And there are more therapies like that coming up, neurotherapy, for instance, where we work with brainwaves. 00:23:27.320 --> 00:23:37.065 But the exposure techniques are are pretty much the the the solid ones that we have based almost everything else on. 00:23:40.085 --> 00:23:51.740 Also, a lot of adjunctive therapies, things like art, music, movement, and dance are really nice adjunctive therapies to that go with this pretty well. 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.600 So it really depends on the client. 00:23:54.600 --> 00:24:13.495 It really depends on their personality and how well they tolerate, the the intrusions and the reactions to the experiences that they've had as to whether or not they are capable of handling certain therapies that go very, very in-depth.