WEBVTT 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:17.555 Welcome to the latest edition of the Call to Flourish podcast, of Divine Mercy University. 00:00:17.855 --> 00:00:19.455 My name is father Charles Sikorsky. 00:00:19.455 --> 00:00:21.395 I'm the president at Divine Mercy University. 00:00:22.255 --> 00:00:24.975 And today, we are gonna have a discussion. 00:00:24.975 --> 00:00:29.330 It's gonna be really interesting about faith, prayer, and autism. 00:00:30.030 --> 00:00:35.470 And today with me, as my special guest cohost is Bradley Seifer. 00:00:35.470 --> 00:00:44.735 Bradley is, a member of our admissions team here at Divine Mercy University, and Bradley is finishing up his doctorate in theology at Ave Maria University. 00:00:44.795 --> 00:00:46.495 So welcome to the podcast, Bradley. 00:00:46.795 --> 00:00:47.515 Thank you, father. 00:00:47.515 --> 00:00:48.575 It's good to be here. 00:00:49.035 --> 00:00:53.055 And so today's special guest is father Matthew Schneider. 00:00:53.675 --> 00:00:57.535 Father Matthew is a member of the Legionaries of Christ. 00:00:58.170 --> 00:01:10.350 He is a former assistant chaplain, at Divine Mercy University, and he's currently a faculty member teaching theology, at Belmont Abbey College in in North Carolina. 00:01:10.795 --> 00:01:12.715 And so we're really blessed to have father Matthew with us. 00:01:12.715 --> 00:01:13.695 Hello, father Matthew. 00:01:14.315 --> 00:01:15.515 Hello, father Charles. 00:01:15.515 --> 00:01:17.135 It's a blessing to be here too. 00:01:17.435 --> 00:01:26.160 And so today's talk, father Matthew, is just written recently written a book called God Loves the Autistic Mind. 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:28.400 God Loves the Autistic Mind. 00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:38.705 And he wrote it based on his personal experience, and and and the desire to want to evangelize people who have autism. 00:01:39.405 --> 00:01:53.060 And, it's it's a fascinating story and it's a really interesting, topic because according to the government statistics, one in forty four children are born with, on the autistic spectrum. 00:01:54.080 --> 00:02:09.235 Around one of every twenty seven boys and one of one of every one hundred and sixteen girls, I think it is, have this, this, condition, which talk about neurodiversity. 00:02:09.375 --> 00:02:10.575 We'll get into all that. 00:02:10.575 --> 00:02:11.855 And so it's affecting more and more. 00:02:11.855 --> 00:02:16.350 I think it's doing one and a half and two percent of the population overall has this. 00:02:16.350 --> 00:02:23.230 And so many people, families are are are, dealing with this, and many people of faith. 00:02:23.230 --> 00:02:32.685 And and the question is how do we how do we, help a person with this, with this issue to know God, to love God. 00:02:32.685 --> 00:02:39.585 So, father Matthew, why don't we start why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and and what led you to to write your book? 00:02:40.365 --> 00:02:43.085 I was ordained with the Legions of Christ. 00:02:43.085 --> 00:02:48.960 I had my first assignment as, like, a grade school chaplain, and I didn't do great at that. 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:52.400 And, so I was that did that only lasted for about a year. 00:02:52.780 --> 00:03:06.045 And at that point, some of the people in the administration at the school suggested, maybe there's something, you know, at at the time, it was still called Asperger's, you know, and and, with Asperger's or something. 00:03:06.045 --> 00:03:19.450 And so after that, I, you know, I looked at a little later getting and I got a diagnosis for, with autism Autism spectrum disorder because in the meantime, we had the DSM five, which kind of combined AstraZeneca's and autism. 00:03:20.630 --> 00:03:48.310 And from there, relatively soon afterwards, I realized the dearth of information that there is for Catholics, for Christians in general on the topic because I was reading a whole bunch of books on autism, and there were books on this aspect of life and autism, that aspect of life and autism, and almost nothing on prayer and autism or on Christian life as an autistic person or anything like that. 00:03:48.690 --> 00:04:04.565 And I felt quite early on after that that we needed some book like that, and myself being already a priest who had a decent amount of experience with that and being someone who was diagnosed, it, would probably be one of the people who might write something like that. 00:04:05.330 --> 00:04:07.670 So that was that was kind of the inspiration. 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:17.330 A few years after that, I end up getting a contract with Pauline Press Pauline Press, the daughters of Saint Paul, and, we published it in, June of this year. 00:04:17.330 --> 00:04:21.485 So And so you were diagnosed a little bit later in life. 00:04:22.745 --> 00:04:26.605 What what are some of the, how do we know someone might be autistic? 00:04:26.745 --> 00:04:34.070 And what are some common signs that might indicate that and that someone might wanna get, tested? 00:04:34.930 --> 00:04:43.730 Well, the the diagnostic criteria for autism aren't that you have to have all of the same, criteria for every person who's autistic. 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:46.630 If you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. 00:04:46.985 --> 00:04:53.405 But there's there's certain categories of of things, and you have to have a certain number of checks in each category. 00:04:53.785 --> 00:04:56.045 And one of them would be, like, a sensory difference. 00:04:56.665 --> 00:04:58.025 Now this can vary a lot. 00:04:58.025 --> 00:05:04.860 A lot of autistic people are very sensitive to light, and so they'd, even in a normal office like this, will be wearing sunglasses or something like that. 00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:14.380 And if you have a child who's can't stand five minutes in the sun without wearing their sunglasses, even on a cloudy day, you might have you might have some kind of sign there. 00:05:14.380 --> 00:05:24.565 Or if you have a child who just who can't stand touching and just the lightest touch is too much or really wants just to, like, bare hug them constantly, those kind of differences in sensory aspect. 00:05:25.585 --> 00:05:36.690 Another thing is the the aspect of social interactions that our emotions don't operate at exactly the same frequency kind of thing as most people. 00:05:37.470 --> 00:05:39.790 And so we'll have difficulties in social situations. 00:05:39.790 --> 00:05:43.790 Like I mentioned, that was kind of what led me on the path towards that. 00:05:43.790 --> 00:05:51.565 Or we'll have we'll have unusual emotional reactions to certain things, and you'll notice that in in children. 00:05:51.865 --> 00:05:59.250 You also notice certain things children will be often delayed in is often kind of the the spark for parents. 00:05:59.310 --> 00:06:06.370 A child who's noticed to be older than they should be and still hasn't spoken or still hasn't set a complete sentence. 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:15.025 Autism is often one of the things because sometimes with the sensory processing and things like that, that can turn into a difficulty with speech. 00:06:15.725 --> 00:06:26.670 And, also, the tendency with words to think of the the denotative or literal meaning of the word and not the connotative or interpreted meaning of the word. 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:32.010 For for example, it took me a while and I have to really think about it. 00:06:32.010 --> 00:06:41.005 If somebody's using words in a a sentence in a sarcastic manner, I'm probably the one least likely to pick up on it they're using it sarcastically, and I might think of it more literally. 00:06:42.425 --> 00:06:53.245 An idea an idea of a a connotative versus a denotative meaning is well, a connotative meaning is, I mean, the denotative meaning, the literal meaning is just what the meaning is in the dictionary. 00:06:53.410 --> 00:06:57.130 The connotated meaning is the interpretive meaning in the context Mhmm. 00:06:57.330 --> 00:07:07.185 And the social situations and the nonverbal communication with it, the tone of voice that might indicate somebody's just joking about something or something like that. 00:07:07.665 --> 00:07:15.925 And and as well and so those are kind those are often the main kind of signs that people will will recognize it in a child or in an adult. 00:07:16.385 --> 00:07:21.640 There are some kind of internal signs in a sense of our brain working differently. 00:07:21.940 --> 00:07:35.685 Like, one of the things once I was diagnosed that really confirmed it for me was I realized that there are many, many things in social situations that most of you are doing subconsciously, that I had over my lifespan learned to do consciously. 00:07:36.385 --> 00:07:46.805 And being on the more intelligent end of the human the human spectrum, obviously, being a university professor, I'm not I I'm not, intellectually delayed or anything. 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:59.895 The I was able to do that and to have these conscious clues for social interactions that got me passively through life, but I'm not really as fluent in it as others. 00:08:01.095 --> 00:08:11.675 So I think those are kind of signs you would have, both internal and external signs of autism because it really is an internal experience, but an internal experience often produces external results. 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:22.900 One last sign is a lot of times we we like things, you know, very regimented because we'll have trouble just planning out planning out our our day and our life. 00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:28.855 I know for myself, I don't need it absolutely regimented, but I need to know forty eight hours in advance what the plan is. 00:08:28.855 --> 00:08:33.175 Like, if you if some people are like, oh, let's go to the city and have have a fun day. 00:08:33.175 --> 00:08:34.155 And I'm like, okay. 00:08:34.455 --> 00:08:39.755 You know, let's plan out the whole the whole trip because otherwise, I'm gonna be stressed about it the whole time. 00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:41.100 Yeah. 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:46.640 Father Matthew, so you've spoken to some of the, challenges that autistic persons often encounter. 00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:51.200 But what would be some of the strengths that are most common to those with autism? 00:08:51.820 --> 00:08:58.605 One thing about autism is you tend to have a special interest or interest where you can go very deep in and you can know very well. 00:08:59.465 --> 00:09:09.990 One thing I would notice that even in the seminary, I got the nickname Schneiderpedia from my fellow seminarians because I would just I would know the material extremely well. 00:09:09.990 --> 00:09:18.650 I I I did very, very well in in especially undergraduate studies where I was just knowing all the material in theology, philosophy, things like that. 00:09:18.950 --> 00:09:24.665 And with that, that can be a huge strength that you can remember a whole lot of information. 00:09:25.285 --> 00:09:36.565 You can also, at times, see through, like, kind of fakeness or dishonesty, to see more authentic reality of people. 00:09:36.565 --> 00:09:42.620 And oftentimes, in a team, if you're able to collaborate, the autistic person can see a different perspective. 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:51.640 It does not necessarily right or wrong, but it's a different one so that that can help out the whole team because we have we have people who have different perspectives. 00:09:51.640 --> 00:10:01.475 You're more likely to get a better perspective going forward if you have four different perspectives to start with than if everybody is working on the same same basic perspective to start with. 00:10:01.935 --> 00:10:09.500 So, father Matthew, I've heard, that atheism can be more common among autistic people. 00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:10.620 Is that true? 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.000 So I definitely think that that's true. 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.360 I have I actually mentioned that in the introduction of my book. 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:19.320 I talk about that less less practice of faith and things. 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.495 I think there's a number of factors in that. 00:10:22.055 --> 00:10:25.275 One is that we tend to be very logical thinkers. 00:10:26.055 --> 00:10:35.130 And being very logical, we tend to either be religious and that we try to make it to mass once a week or more or atheist. 00:10:36.070 --> 00:10:49.465 There's there's much let money if you're autistics in the kind of Christmas and Easter Catholics for lack of a better description, because either god exists and I should worship him and I should spend time with him, or he doesn't exist. 00:10:49.605 --> 00:10:56.425 And why would I bother with this social custom of going to church a few times a year just because? 00:10:57.365 --> 00:11:06.830 And so I think that's part of it in the sense that we we, autistics, will tend to split more in that spectrum. 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:15.950 And so a lot of the people who would be technically being God and kind of barely practicing on a normal spectrum would become atheist in of in autism. 00:11:16.605 --> 00:11:36.180 And, also, I think there's a lot of aspects of religion not being sensory friendly or religion not adapting its explanations to kind of this more logical, autistic mindset that we can actually change as a as a church to really help address that, to have more autistic people become active in their faith. 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:45.715 So I think that there's a number of factors like that, and I think that that's a that it's it is it is a serious aspect among among those on the spectrum. 00:11:46.415 --> 00:11:46.895 Excellent. 00:11:46.895 --> 00:11:48.115 Well, thank you for that. 00:11:48.495 --> 00:11:53.075 What about how does faith fit in everyday life, the autistic person and his family? 00:11:53.710 --> 00:11:59.950 Well, I would say, for the most part, it fits in relatively similar to how it would fit in for an average person. 00:11:59.950 --> 00:12:00.270 Right? 00:12:00.270 --> 00:12:01.410 Like, I'm a religious. 00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:03.250 I go to pray every morning. 00:12:03.630 --> 00:12:20.755 I and now I when I go to pray and I do my hour of mental prayer in the morning, I I think that I tend to use more more logic and less emotion than the average person, but and I have different ways of using my imagination in that prayer. 00:12:21.055 --> 00:12:24.320 But I think in a certain sense, it's very similar to everybody else. 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:25.440 I'm living my life. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:26.960 I am praying every day. 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.800 I'm going I'm saying mass or going to mass regularly and things like that. 00:12:30.800 --> 00:12:38.645 So I think that that is very similar to non autistic people in the sense of prayer and liturgy throughout your day or your week. 00:12:39.585 --> 00:12:39.905 Yeah. 00:12:39.905 --> 00:12:50.405 So you mentioned that the, the aspect of logic and and, you know, does God exist or not and kinda wanting to know what the the reasons why and so forth. 00:12:50.770 --> 00:12:57.010 And so it could be a struggle sometimes for the faith can be a little bit more emotional at times or for some people. 00:12:57.010 --> 00:13:16.485 But what are the what do you think so what what are what are the aspects about the faith, the Catholic faith, that may be easier for an autistic people are to understand and believe as opposed to, someone who who doesn't who doesn't have perspective? 00:13:17.345 --> 00:13:19.105 Now there's a number of different things. 00:13:19.105 --> 00:13:25.790 I I think a good way to go about this question is to think of what book was most influential for me as a teenager. 00:13:26.250 --> 00:13:32.810 Because a lot of people have books that really influenced them as a teenager, and they're often very spiritual books or, you know, testimony books. 00:13:32.810 --> 00:13:44.905 And the book that really influenced me the most as a teenager in my spiritual life was The Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreft and Robert Cecelli, which is a is a is still a pretty good book. 00:13:44.905 --> 00:13:49.770 It's it's really the first chapter's logic and the second chapter is does God exist? 00:13:49.770 --> 00:13:50.010 Okay. 00:13:50.010 --> 00:13:50.570 Well, let's look. 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:52.990 Here's 25 proofs for the for God's existence. 00:13:53.290 --> 00:13:59.130 Next next chapter is is does have an exist, and it's very logical and it's very working out. 00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:20.230 And I think a lot of times, aspects like that, the kind of philosophical, kind of logical, theological, aspects of our faith are very helpful and can be more active for an autistic person, whereas something that's much more emotive might not be as attractive for one on the spectrum in general. 00:14:20.230 --> 00:14:21.350 Let me let me give you an example. 00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:22.250 I'm just speculating. 00:14:22.390 --> 00:14:26.650 I'm talking here, you know, thinking about this. 00:14:27.350 --> 00:14:31.655 You know, some people have a the problem of pain or of evil in the world. 00:14:32.595 --> 00:14:43.235 And would it be easier for an autistic person to understand, well, there is a god, though, and and and look at it more logically because that could be let me say, okay. 00:14:43.235 --> 00:14:48.970 Bad things happen to good people, and sometimes that can cause a person to doubt god's existence. 00:14:49.990 --> 00:14:59.475 And would you say maybe an autistic person could handle that situation better, or or or is that also a big challenge for them as well? 00:14:59.555 --> 00:15:01.395 I think it's a big challenge for them. 00:15:01.395 --> 00:15:11.790 I do know that there is, a lot of difficulties and things like that, but there is kind of that logical strength that can sometimes get through that. 00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:13.790 I'm trying to remember who it was. 00:15:13.790 --> 00:15:22.350 It's somebody I said in my book, and they did a study where they were where they were comparing autistic and non autistic kids in religious education and how many questions they asked. 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:29.775 And the autistic kids tended to ask less questions off the bat, but they ask more existential questions like that like that one. 00:15:29.775 --> 00:15:35.715 How, you know, how can an evil exist and questions like that, which was which was kind of interesting in that regard. 00:15:35.935 --> 00:15:46.900 And I think that is that is a challenge for anyone, but and I think that our logical way of thinking can help get through it more than somebody else who can be overly emotional about it. 00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:54.935 But that's not a guarantee, and I and it's not that that is easy for anybody to to think through, to to work through. 00:15:55.155 --> 00:16:01.075 So father Matthew, you mentioned some of, you know, the ways in which autistic persons, you know, see faith in more logical ways. 00:16:01.075 --> 00:16:19.485 What about specifically coming of age when you're a teenager and things like this when sometimes, it's common for the teenage faith to be often linked with emotion and things like this and being able to connect with God in a relationship is is often really important in sort of our teen in many people's teenage years when it comes to, coming to faith. 00:16:19.725 --> 00:16:27.165 Does that often pose some sort of tension with a lot of autistic people that maybe that's not exactly how they tend to go about faith? 00:16:27.165 --> 00:16:34.305 So in other words, just the coming of age chapter in a person's life, what as Elizabeth faced difficult for an autistic person? 00:16:34.590 --> 00:16:37.810 Well, I think that there's two aspects to address in your question. 00:16:38.270 --> 00:16:45.310 The first one is kind of how we do youth ministry, and I do think that there are issues for autistic people in that. 00:16:45.310 --> 00:16:50.425 And as I was expressing before, how we need to explain the faith better in an autistic mindset. 00:16:50.485 --> 00:16:58.905 And I definitely think a lot of youth ministry practice where it's very, very emotional and super emotionally centered are probably not the best for helping autistics really live their faith. 00:16:59.045 --> 00:17:08.790 Now, obviously, at the same time, it's not that we don't have personal relationships, not that we don't want to have a relationship with God, relationship with our friends, and things like that, and we do. 00:17:08.790 --> 00:17:12.570 And so it's just finding those ways in which we can have those relationships. 00:17:13.590 --> 00:17:35.340 One of the things you'll if if you look at for autism online in various different things, autistics will tend to have relationships more around different activities and not just kind of go to hang out, but you'll have the autistics who play Dungeons and Dragons or play Catan or or things like that together, and they make a friend group through doing those things. 00:17:37.080 --> 00:17:37.480 Yeah. 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:37.960 Interesting. 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:38.620 Thank you. 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:53.695 As far as prayer, are there particular types of prayer that are are better or come easier for the autistic person, and and what might be a bigger challenge? 00:17:54.795 --> 00:17:57.355 Like, so if you're like, if you would recommend someone and say, hey. 00:17:57.355 --> 00:18:00.000 I wanna help my my son learn to pray. 00:18:00.080 --> 00:18:00.980 What would you recommend? 00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:02.240 Absolutely, I should read your book. 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:02.640 But Yeah. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.280 Go ahead. 00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:06.720 Well, I mean, I have I have the book here, and it's got, like, a whole chapter on this. 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.740 Actually, it's two chapters on it. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:20.295 But, the the first thing I would say is just to think of why we do things in prayer and think of if that why applies to an autistic person. 00:18:21.155 --> 00:18:28.050 For example, we often talk about you'll often hear the verse cited from, I think it's, the Psalms, be still and know that I am God. 00:18:28.050 --> 00:18:31.250 And this idea of us being very still in our posture when we're praying. 00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:31.490 Right? 00:18:31.490 --> 00:18:39.090 You you know, at least when I was a little kid, it was, like, taught you, like, kneel perfectly at the side of your bed and pray your night prayers and things. 00:18:39.090 --> 00:18:56.370 Whereas for an autistic person, a lot of times, that's actually distracting and some kind of what we would call stimming, which is some kind of repetitive motion, will actually be a way to pray better and really get what the goal of that of that posture is. 00:18:56.370 --> 00:18:59.510 That goal of that posture is to focus our minds on God. 00:18:59.570 --> 00:19:11.725 And I know for myself, if I'm pacing or I'm rocking back and forth in rocking chair, I could focus on God much, much more than if I'm, you know, consciously trying to be still because being still is just so awkward for me. 00:19:11.725 --> 00:19:17.025 Like, even in this in this video call, you can notice I'm rotating back and forth a little bit on my chair here. 00:19:17.245 --> 00:19:21.165 And and so things like that, it's it's to understand the why. 00:19:21.165 --> 00:19:25.760 The why of posture is to really focus our mind on god. 00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:33.920 Well, if being still in your posture is not gonna focus you on god, it's not gonna be the best for an autistic person if they need if they're going to pray. 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:45.205 I think also another another aspect is the challenge we have at the beginning because one of the challenges with with autism is what's called theory of mind. 00:19:45.205 --> 00:19:51.145 And so theory of mind is basically, I'm thinking what you're thinking at this moment. 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:56.520 And so each of us makes kind of a theory in our head of what the other person is thinking. 00:19:56.520 --> 00:19:57.020 Right? 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.200 So I look at you and you nod as we're talking here, and I think, oh, yes. 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.140 Father Charles just understood what I said. 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:09.045 But at the same time, we do a lot more than that. 00:20:09.045 --> 00:20:10.745 Subconsciously, most people do. 00:20:11.125 --> 00:20:15.465 And we, autistics, don't tend to do nearly as much subconsciously on that. 00:20:16.085 --> 00:20:17.205 And that's a challenge. 00:20:17.205 --> 00:20:19.685 That could really be a challenge at the beginning of prayer. 00:20:19.685 --> 00:20:31.440 What took any past kind of, I'm saying the our father or I'm saying the decade of the rosary to I'm actually communicating with God is you have the the theory of mind and the divine mind because what is God thinking about me? 00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:32.160 Right? 00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:39.055 What like, I know I I I was taught in in Sunday school, god loves me, but what does that mean? 00:20:39.355 --> 00:20:41.035 How does how does god express that? 00:20:41.035 --> 00:20:42.815 How is god showing that to me? 00:20:42.875 --> 00:20:45.775 Can I think of what is in god's mind in my own mind? 00:20:46.155 --> 00:20:56.910 Well, I think that that could be a real challenge in the beginning because that is harder than it is for our fellow human persons around here where we talk to, look at their face. 00:20:56.910 --> 00:20:57.710 We can see, okay. 00:20:57.710 --> 00:20:58.350 They're nodding. 00:20:58.350 --> 00:20:59.390 They're they're doing this. 00:20:59.390 --> 00:21:02.925 They're doing that because you don't have those same aspects with God. 00:21:03.085 --> 00:21:22.260 But at the same time, once you get over that, I think the fact that we don't have that allows us to have a heart to heart with God in a more direct way because other people will put that filter of the theory of mind between them and God because that filter is it is is a natural filter they have between them and a relationship within the other person. 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.520 That filter is helpful usually in human relationships. 00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:29.200 It could be a challenge for us in human relationships that we don't really have that filter. 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:35.015 But with God, it can be the opposite where not having that filter can actually allow us to communicate more directly with God. 00:21:35.315 --> 00:21:37.955 In in that sense, I don't need to express my words. 00:21:37.955 --> 00:21:45.690 I can what I'm thinking, and I know God knows what I'm thinking and things like that, and that could really be a way to go super deep in prayer. 00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:51.230 So, father Matthew, what about liturgical preferences with autistics? 00:21:51.850 --> 00:21:58.830 Do they tend to prefer, say, a Latin mass versus the Novus Ordo, or or does that a factor in at all with their prior life? 00:21:59.355 --> 00:22:03.915 I don't think it's really necessarily the Novus Ordo or the Latin mass. 00:22:03.915 --> 00:22:29.485 I think really what a lot of times is a very structured mass, which obviously can can sometimes towards a Latin mass, but also a mass that's Novus Ordo that's, you know, we do this, this, this, and not one that's kind of a, praise and worship, almost Pentecostal style, you know, Catholic, charismatic, no which good mass is just, like, I have never had any attraction to that personally. 00:22:29.485 --> 00:22:31.825 It's but it's very good in that sense for them. 00:22:31.885 --> 00:22:40.865 And so I think with our lives, we we do have that challenge in that we are sorry. 00:22:41.405 --> 00:22:45.180 We we have to have a very structured mass. 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:46.060 It helps us out. 00:22:46.060 --> 00:23:01.825 The fact that we have that, we know the same things happening every week and whatever format that's in, whether it's the ordinary ordinary form or the extraordinary form, I think, is is a secondary question to one that's very structured. 00:23:01.825 --> 00:23:09.910 And then sometimes sensory issues, so whether it's a sensory issue with the incense or with the loud music or things like that can be a big challenge. 00:23:09.910 --> 00:23:25.335 And so a lot of times a lot of parishes well, a number of parishes have started doing sensory friendly masses where they turn down the volume and the lights or sets reverse choirs that basically turn a choir room into that space where it's less volume, less light, for one of the masses. 00:23:25.635 --> 00:23:49.370 And if and if that's not available, usually, what most will find most helpful is either, like, a Latin mass or those kind of 07:30AM Sunday masses that are that are very much, you know, limited music, you know, very structured that, for lack of better and and those type of masses because that's the kind of mass that really attracts us in our hearts in that sense. 00:23:50.265 --> 00:23:50.505 Yeah. 00:23:50.505 --> 00:23:58.845 So there are actually parishes now doing masses for with, I guess, you called it, sensory how'd you say that? 00:23:59.305 --> 00:24:00.345 Sensory friendly. 00:24:00.345 --> 00:24:12.940 So if you go to my website, I have a directory, that if people find other ones and tell me, I'll update it of masses in The US where they do where they do run a sensory friendly mass at that parish. 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:13.400 Okay. 00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:14.860 What's your website? 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:17.160 Frmatthewlc. 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.965 So just like fathermatthewlcc.okay..com. 00:24:20.965 --> 00:24:22.825 Frmatthewlc.com. 00:24:22.965 --> 00:24:23.205 Okay. 00:24:23.285 --> 00:24:26.405 It's one of the top menu items, so it's not hard to find what's on the site. 00:24:26.405 --> 00:24:27.285 What do you think now? 00:24:27.285 --> 00:24:39.680 So more and more Catholics, I guess, are aware of this, need, and, it's great to hear that parishes and and priests are becoming more aware. 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.960 Do you do you see how do you see that going right now? 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.475 Is it a lot more needs to be done? 00:24:46.475 --> 00:24:49.035 Or what would you say is is it is a good trend? 00:24:49.035 --> 00:24:51.135 Or how would you evaluate the situation? 00:24:51.515 --> 00:24:53.195 I definitely there's a good trend. 00:24:53.195 --> 00:25:09.350 I would hope that at least every metro every major metro area is able to have a sensory friendly mask because I do know that a number of autistic people who just can't stand the sensory issues of ordinary masks, end up not going to mask because of it even though they want to. 00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:11.650 And and that could be an issue. 00:25:11.650 --> 00:25:16.125 I think that's probably the next step that most places could do in that. 00:25:16.505 --> 00:25:27.110 I do think also the ultimate goal is not just that we allow them to participate in that way, be thinking of 10 mass, but we want autistic people to really serve the church. 00:25:27.110 --> 00:25:35.610 And that's really how the goal we should have when we're bringing someone into the church, not just, oh, I attend mass, but also I serve the church in some capacity. 00:25:35.910 --> 00:25:38.010 I help build up Christ's kingdom. 00:25:38.425 --> 00:25:44.765 And I think that that is an aspect that we still have to work on a lot for autism in the church, but I think it's slowly coming along. 00:25:45.145 --> 00:25:48.445 So what would you say is autistic deeper praying? 00:25:49.065 --> 00:26:00.030 So a deeper prayer, if you go through kind of the classic three stages of somebody like a Tank Ray or a Gary Legrand, they talk about the purgative, the eliminative, and the unitive ways. 00:26:00.570 --> 00:26:03.370 And the purgative is just getting rid of moral sin. 00:26:03.370 --> 00:26:15.315 The the unitive is more of our our own effort and practicing virtue and doing doing regular prayer, regular mental prayer, and things like that. 00:26:15.315 --> 00:26:18.455 And then the unitive is really the gift of God of the deeper prayer. 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:30.400 And I think for anyone, the deepest prayer is obviously that gift of God, that that kind of mystical union with God in prayer where it's almost like we're experiencing a short taste of heaven while still here on earth. 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.255 And I think that's the deepest prayer that anybody can have. 00:26:33.975 --> 00:26:44.795 Now I think kind of the the level just before that is gonna be a little different for different people, both on the spectrum and not. 00:26:45.175 --> 00:27:09.795 I do know that, like I was saying before, how once we've kind of gotten over what I call the prayer the prayer hump in that sense where it's like where we kind of got over the struggle of seeing the divine mind, we can really understand deeply, and we can really go super deep in our prayer to really have that heart to heart communication with God where it's no longer so much words. 00:27:09.795 --> 00:27:21.130 It's kind of the movements of my heart directly communicate with God as as the level just before when God gives us a gift of the ultimate union with him, that mystical union. 00:27:21.750 --> 00:27:25.930 Are there any particular meditations or gospel scenes that you would recommend? 00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:29.450 I think each person is different in that regard. 00:27:30.075 --> 00:27:48.940 I in my book, I have 52 meditations, little short short two page little things, and each one has a few verses of of from the Bible, either the gospel or the Psalms or, I don't remember else, but I'm sure there's other whether it's Saint Paul or some Old Testament prophets or things. 00:27:49.320 --> 00:27:53.560 And I think that that is valuable in general. 00:27:53.560 --> 00:27:57.895 I think at different moments of our lives, we need different gospel scenes. 00:27:57.895 --> 00:28:21.525 Because I know for myself at different moments of my life, different gospel scenes have helped helped me out at different times, whether it's, you know, Jesus and Mary Magdalene in in in John 20 or whether it's, you know, the the trans the ascension in Matthew 28 or this discussion with Nicodemus in in John three or all the different passages we have, interacting with Jesus. 00:28:21.525 --> 00:28:25.285 So I I don't have any kind of particular passages for autistics. 00:28:25.285 --> 00:28:28.665 I think it varies throughout our lives just like it does for everybody else. 00:28:29.525 --> 00:28:34.565 So, father Matthew, would you say, is it possible for it to reflect autistic identity in Christ? 00:28:34.565 --> 00:28:35.705 And if so, how? 00:28:36.580 --> 00:28:43.480 The goal really in all of our lives is to become one with Christ in that union, to live Christ out in virtue and in union. 00:28:43.540 --> 00:28:45.560 And that's the goal of all Christian life. 00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:57.095 And I think in that sense, it's it's one of the things that people can have a sense of both with autism and with other conditions is kind of, oh, I have to overcome this to have my identity in Christ. 00:28:57.395 --> 00:29:02.935 But but autism is something that's part of who I am, so I can have that identity in Christ. 00:29:03.155 --> 00:29:11.740 I can live that per virtue, live that union with God in prayer while being autistic, not, oh, I get rid of the autism to get to there. 00:29:11.800 --> 00:29:15.900 Because I think with a lot of a lot of psychological conditions, there's kinda that temptation. 00:29:16.120 --> 00:29:19.525 Oh, I get rid of my OCD to get a union with god. 00:29:19.525 --> 00:29:33.000 But, no, if whatever your condition is, you have that me as I am, I come before god, I practice virtue, I choose the the good at all moments, and I live in that union with him. 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:40.700 And so I think that that's really where we all find our identity in Christ is that virtue, that prayer, that living in him and through him. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:41.240 Yeah. 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.400 You know, this god loves us as we are and meets us where we are. 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:54.205 He wants to he wants to make us, more than anything, he wants our love, and he wants us to to feel his love experience and know that he loves us. 00:29:54.205 --> 00:29:58.525 And, you know, saint Saint Therese of Lisieux, you know, talks about that. 00:29:58.525 --> 00:30:02.525 Here I am, and I can't do anything about it, and he still loves me. 00:30:02.525 --> 00:30:03.185 You know? 00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:04.580 Oh, yeah. 00:30:04.580 --> 00:30:07.640 There's, doctor Paul Bitz here at DMU. 00:30:08.020 --> 00:30:13.160 He wrote a whole, academic paper analyzing the psychology of Saint Teresa of the zoo that's very interesting. 00:30:13.540 --> 00:30:16.900 I I I cited in in one of my grad studies, classes. 00:30:16.900 --> 00:30:21.915 So You've done quite a bit of research, on your book. 00:30:22.535 --> 00:30:24.295 And, of course, you have your PhD as well. 00:30:24.295 --> 00:30:26.875 So you're you're you're, you know, you're a very good researcher. 00:30:27.575 --> 00:30:35.050 What other kinds of resource are there other resources out there that deal with this issue? 00:30:35.050 --> 00:30:36.010 Are there you know? 00:30:36.010 --> 00:30:39.610 So because I know your book your book seems to be doing very well. 00:30:39.610 --> 00:30:42.090 It seems like it's it's it's it's a very needed resource. 00:30:42.090 --> 00:30:51.735 So has it been hard to find these kinds of resources, prayer, and just helping the autistic people understand the prayer life better and and that god loves them. 00:30:52.115 --> 00:30:57.795 Well, I think, to a certain extent, other resources can help out as well, like other prayer resources that are out there. 00:30:57.795 --> 00:31:04.360 I know for myself, I've I've used a whole bunch of other meditation prayer books in my life, and I found it very helpful. 00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:08.840 There are a few other, resources out there. 00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:18.695 Loyola Press has a kind of adaptive first communion first a reconciliation kit for kids who are autistic or have other, developmental delays. 00:31:19.075 --> 00:31:29.335 It's mainly for those with intellectual delays, so it's, it's making sure you understand the base of the sacrament even if you're not the most articulate kid at the for being a second or third grader. 00:31:29.850 --> 00:31:34.890 And then, Summer Kinnard, who's if you look at my book, she's the one quote on the back. 00:31:34.890 --> 00:31:38.750 She wrote, of such in the kingdom, a practical theology of disability. 00:31:38.810 --> 00:31:40.090 She's an orthodox woman. 00:31:40.090 --> 00:31:47.395 So, obviously, not not Catholic, but orthodoxy and Catholicism other than really the pope are pretty much have the same teaching. 00:31:47.855 --> 00:31:58.870 And, and she wrote a whole a whole book on that, which she she's autistic and some of her kids are, so that's really the emphasis emphasis of it even though it's disability in general. 00:31:59.170 --> 00:32:04.450 And I think it's probably the the second best book on the topic, out there. 00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:15.995 It has some practical things that I don't really get into as much about, you know, help me out as a mother with autistic children, how to help them to pray, how to help them to live live their own prayer life. 00:32:16.135 --> 00:32:23.790 I know in my book, I take her ideas for making a prayer corner and basically, you know, basically copy them. 00:32:24.030 --> 00:32:32.210 I note that icons and statues, not just icons when she says it, but that's, you know, that's a slight difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but not a huge difference. 00:32:32.910 --> 00:32:43.615 Others, so how can religion in general and Catholicism in particular, help those with autism overcome many of their struggles such as sensory overload, social awkwardness, that kind of stuff? 00:32:44.235 --> 00:33:00.680 Well, I think all the time for whatever our struggles are, if we have that relationship with Jesus, it helps us see it through any of our struggles, whatever they are, whether it's autism, whether it's, death in the family, whether it's PTSD, whether it's this or that, or whatever kind of struggles we have. 00:33:00.820 --> 00:33:10.545 And I think that that is the first way in that sense that we have that relationship with Jesus and we and also that we have that community because community is an essential part of the of our faith. 00:33:10.545 --> 00:33:12.065 You know, we are the body of Christ. 00:33:12.065 --> 00:33:13.425 We work together as a body. 00:33:13.425 --> 00:33:13.925 Right? 00:33:13.985 --> 00:33:22.320 And so the idea is that I might be the finger, but the rest of the body has helped me out as the finger, right, of, Saint Paul's image in in the letter to the Corinthians. 00:33:23.820 --> 00:33:35.755 Now with that, I think that there are certain specific things that could help out in that sense to to calm us or to help us to to focus in those times. 00:33:36.375 --> 00:33:55.790 I think, for example, a lot of times, a little short prayer, like a one line prayer, whether it's, whether it's something like, the Jesus prayer that's common in the Eastern church, Catholic and Orthodox, lord Jesus, son of living God, have mercy on me, a sinner, which a lot of these for monks will pray over and over again, like, hundreds or thousands of times a day. 00:33:55.930 --> 00:34:06.345 But even for my even for us on the on the spectrum, if we're going to to a moment where we're starting to have a struggle, a lot of time, it almost become like a little stem in our mind where it's kind of a repetition, like, over and over again. 00:34:06.345 --> 00:34:13.885 And that can really help us to to overcome that moment of challenge, whether it's a sensory overload or a social issue or anything like that. 00:34:14.905 --> 00:34:18.985 Now, father Matthew, you've, now you have quite an extensive following on Twitter. 00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:29.880 And you really you know, pope Francis talks about missionary disciples and, and how we should go to, quote, unquote, peripheries and so forth. 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:42.587 And I think you've really, you're you're doing that in in many ways, and it's not that you you're actually it's not just ministry and trying to help people with autism, but really the church in general. 00:34:42.587 --> 00:34:49.710 And and you're to be congratulated and commended for that with the different, articles you write and the message you put out. 00:34:49.950 --> 00:34:59.310 But could you tell since you've written your book, have you gotten feedback from people who are or, you know, what's God been doing with that? 00:34:59.310 --> 00:35:07.965 Like, have there been some some people who've contacted you and say, hey, you know, how can we help and how can we be better disciples as well? 00:35:07.965 --> 00:35:10.525 Because it doesn't like, there's an area that needs attention. 00:35:10.525 --> 00:35:11.085 Oh, definitely. 00:35:11.085 --> 00:35:20.190 I'm getting I've gotten a number of different contacts from individuals or vocation directors about people entering religious life for the priesthood who are on the spectrum. 00:35:21.210 --> 00:35:28.270 I know, there was last last year, there was a a priest ordained who was artistic who I talked to. 00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:32.110 I'm not going to give his name because he has not announced it publicly. 00:35:32.810 --> 00:35:43.225 And and so I think that that is a those type of things have been something that since I've been public about being autistic, I've gotten a number of those both before and after the book. 00:35:43.285 --> 00:35:51.910 From the book, I've gotten a a whole a whole number of people who really said that really helped them to understand prayer, to really go deeper in prayer and things like that. 00:35:52.930 --> 00:36:03.090 One of the things I know about the peripheries is so after I was diagnosed before I was public about it, I was in class with doctor Ed Peters, who's a relatively well known canon lawyer in The States. 00:36:03.090 --> 00:36:03.590 Mhmm. 00:36:03.855 --> 00:36:09.695 And we were go and I had a class with him in my my graduate studies on I think it's book two. 00:36:09.695 --> 00:36:10.975 You're the canon lawyer, father Charlie. 00:36:10.975 --> 00:36:11.855 You can tell me what's wrong. 00:36:11.855 --> 00:36:14.995 But on the teaching office of the church, that was the class. 00:36:15.455 --> 00:36:22.440 And he noted this idea of going to the mission and to peripheries in one of the classes, and he noted he has a deaf son. 00:36:23.220 --> 00:36:27.220 And so he he is the one who does the interpretation for mass. 00:36:27.220 --> 00:36:39.225 Like, he'll be up there at the front beside doing all the the ASL, the sign language, so that his son and so other deaf people in the area can attend mass and understand what the priest is saying and things like and what the readings are and such. 00:36:39.925 --> 00:36:44.360 And he he noted how things like that are the peripheries as well. 00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:51.140 And I think in a way, autism is like that too because we have a different way of communicating than ordinary people. 00:36:51.140 --> 00:36:55.380 It's not as different as somebody who's deaf because they're obviously they can't they don't speak. 00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:56.520 They use their hands. 00:36:56.835 --> 00:37:03.175 But for us, just the way we understand language, the way we're interpreted, we are going to have that different way of communicating. 00:37:03.475 --> 00:37:07.255 And so reaching out to autistic people is reaching out to the peripheries, I think. 00:37:07.635 --> 00:37:18.960 So, father, I was wondering about you mentioned of being more conscious of the way that you relate to other people in a way that for most people that don't have autism, they sort of do it subconsciously. 00:37:19.660 --> 00:37:37.525 I wonder, though, for those people who have autism that really work at consciously consciously, building relationships with other with other people and versus those autistic persons that don't do that, that really just sort of allow their autistic tendencies to manifest themselves throughout their lives. 00:37:37.585 --> 00:37:48.290 Is it the case that for those that really work at it, it could become a second nature, and so it doesn't appear as if the person, in fact, has autism, those that actually work at it? 00:37:48.590 --> 00:37:49.150 Well, yes. 00:37:49.150 --> 00:37:51.470 I think that there can be a degree of working at it. 00:37:51.470 --> 00:37:53.895 I think that there's a few things to think about with that. 00:37:54.135 --> 00:38:11.650 First of all, is that a conscious process is more exhausting than a subconscious process, and so there is a lot of a lot of adult diagnosed autistics basically burned out from all the effort they had to do there, and that's when they started discovering the diagnosis if you read if you read the stories of that online and things. 00:38:11.790 --> 00:38:21.250 And so I think that there is there is something you can do to mitigate it externally, and it's what's called masking in the sense that I'm thinking that I'm not autistic. 00:38:21.390 --> 00:38:30.885 And, obviously, for certain situations, I go to a social event, you know, at a intellectual conference for for theology where I'm teaching or something. 00:38:31.105 --> 00:38:34.565 There's certain parts that where I'm probably gonna do that. 00:38:34.785 --> 00:38:40.250 But if I have to do that eight hours a day, five days a week, I'm gonna be exhausted. 00:38:41.910 --> 00:38:45.530 And and that and that's the thing to think about at the first part. 00:38:45.590 --> 00:38:52.245 The second point is that autism is often comorbid with intellectual delay or intellectual disability. 00:38:52.945 --> 00:39:01.620 And with that, those people have a lot more challenges, and I think we need to accept them more for who they are. 00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:19.435 I, myself, obviously, being university professor, doctoral degree, all those things, I have a very strong intellectual aspect, and I can kind of supplement my my not so great social skills with that above average intellectual capacity there. 00:39:19.895 --> 00:39:26.955 Whereas a lot of autistics don't have that to supplement their social skills with, and so we can't expect that from them. 00:39:27.660 --> 00:39:34.080 So I think it just varies a lot, and it varies a lot person to person exactly how much they struggle with different aspects of being autistic. 00:39:35.740 --> 00:39:49.295 So I try and be charitable in all people and just assume that everyone is doing their best they can and also realize that a lot of these things can be very exhausting for autistic people even if they can fake it to a certain extent. 00:39:50.475 --> 00:39:54.015 So Matthew is often referred to as the autistic disciple. 00:39:54.660 --> 00:39:58.200 How is his path distinct, different, and special from the other disciples? 00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:03.080 So you note that Matthew as the apostle who was autistic. 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:08.745 I think that's really come from the chosen, which is one of the most popular TV series in recent years. 00:40:08.825 --> 00:40:11.325 Basically shows the apostles as the chosen ones. 00:40:11.385 --> 00:40:19.325 And I think it's been great for the awareness of autism, among Christians especially because tons and tons of Christians have been watching that show. 00:40:20.105 --> 00:40:21.965 I don't know if Matthew is autistic. 00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:35.000 I think it's a perfectly fine way for the the the producers or editors or writers or whatever to put one of the apostles autistic because as we noted beforehand, it's about two percent. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.115 So if one of the 12 apostles was autistic, it's not outside the realm of possibility. 00:40:39.815 --> 00:40:54.710 And I think his way of living through that that autism is helpful to show it in the sense that he's showing somebody who's has a reasonably respectable life, who lives a good life before he's called by Jesus, and then lives as an apostle of Jesus afterwards. 00:40:54.710 --> 00:41:02.010 And I think that, in a way, is a model for a lot of autistic Christians on how to live an autistic Christian life. 00:41:02.070 --> 00:41:09.855 So, by the way, I highly recommend our audience to check out your book, especially if they know someone, a loved one. 00:41:09.855 --> 00:41:11.635 God loves the autistic mind. 00:41:12.895 --> 00:41:30.860 But my my final question would be, you know, what would you say so So we have here at Divine Mercy University our our students and and especially our students who are preparing to be therapists or counselors or helping people in other other helping professions. 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:40.115 What what would you want them to know about because they'll likely run into autistic people in different ways. 00:41:40.115 --> 00:41:45.175 And and and so the whole idea of faith and was there is there something you'd like to tell them? 00:41:45.555 --> 00:42:07.085 I think one of the things that those who are psychologists or teachers or parents, can really benefit from in a situation like this is to try and try and don't try and just deal with what you see externally, but try and understand internally what's going on with the autistic person because oftentimes, finding out something internal can help resolve it. 00:42:07.385 --> 00:42:11.705 Like, oh, my my kid just my kid starts screaming when we go outside. 00:42:11.705 --> 00:42:11.945 Okay. 00:42:11.945 --> 00:42:14.780 Well, maybe the sun's too bright for him. 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:27.855 And so, like, try buying him a pair of sunglasses and see if he can go outside with, you know, a pair of dark sunglasses on because it's not a huge difficulty with life if every time your kid goes outside, he has to wear sunglasses. 00:42:27.915 --> 00:42:34.075 That's nobody's that that's a little bit of an adaptation for life, but it's not a huge challenge in that sense. 00:42:34.075 --> 00:42:35.055 He'll be cool. 00:42:35.275 --> 00:42:35.515 Yeah. 00:42:35.515 --> 00:42:36.495 He'll be cool. 00:42:37.275 --> 00:42:38.190 I'm I know. 00:42:38.190 --> 00:42:43.410 I'm using this as an example because it's something how sometimes we don't even realize it's just a small thing like that. 00:42:43.790 --> 00:42:44.270 Mhmm. 00:42:44.270 --> 00:42:52.930 Like, a a lot of times you try and deal a lot of the books try and deal with how to resolve this issue, but a lot of times you look at, okay, why is what's causing this issue? 00:42:53.215 --> 00:42:53.455 Mhmm. 00:42:53.455 --> 00:43:07.910 Then you're much able to much better able to really help the person out to flourish and not just stop that individual behavior because the if that kid is able to wear sunglasses, all of a sudden, it's not just, oh, I have to keep this kid inside or things like that. 00:43:07.910 --> 00:43:08.550 It's like, okay. 00:43:08.550 --> 00:43:13.430 I need to you know, the kid needs to as they well, do they need to carry the sunglass around all of the time? 00:43:13.430 --> 00:43:13.670 Yeah. 00:43:13.670 --> 00:43:15.590 Don't make everything a big problem. 00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:18.390 It could be simple solutions and practical solutions Yeah. 00:43:18.470 --> 00:43:21.915 For some of the the reactions that you you deal with. 00:43:21.915 --> 00:43:22.395 Well yeah. 00:43:22.395 --> 00:43:29.355 And the practical solutions often are understanding what is what is going on with that person's mind. 00:43:29.355 --> 00:43:36.715 Like, I know that when I was in elementary school, one of my teachers was kinda disappointed in me because I didn't really care for all the fiction books. 00:43:36.715 --> 00:43:50.440 I want to read I want to read the books about dinosaurs, the books about, like, pirate ships, you know, the the the how it works books where, you know, they have the cutouts of all the the skyscrapers or the or the, or the tanks or stuff like that. 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:57.395 And and I would read tons of those books, but then they're like, you know, read this fiction book about something, and it had no interest to me. 00:43:57.615 --> 00:44:02.415 Now now other teachers at the same school would be like, okay. 00:44:02.415 --> 00:44:04.335 This kid, he's reading. 00:44:04.335 --> 00:44:05.955 He's reading at his level. 00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:10.620 He just doesn't like this type of book, and they they were not as much of an issue with it. 00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:12.780 But things like that to understand, okay. 00:44:13.640 --> 00:44:17.580 I'm not getting a lot of the emotional aspect of those fictional books. 00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:22.055 And, sure, it might be good for me to read some of them to help me with that aspect. 00:44:22.195 --> 00:44:24.915 But at the same time, if your goal as an English teacher is, hey. 00:44:24.915 --> 00:44:35.720 You want to read at grade level, or above grade level, and he's reading you know, he likes to read books about, you know, the history or things that's those are perfectly valid books to read. 00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:36.920 Great. 00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:40.580 Well, thank you father Matthew so much for coming on with us. 00:44:40.580 --> 00:44:44.740 And, the book again is God Loves the Autistic Mind. 00:44:44.740 --> 00:44:46.200 I think you can get that online. 00:44:46.635 --> 00:44:47.515 Is it Amazon? 00:44:47.515 --> 00:44:48.875 What are the ways you get it? 00:44:48.875 --> 00:44:52.555 Amazon, the Pauline Bookstore are the main two places you can get it. 00:44:52.715 --> 00:44:55.535 It's on almost all the main ones if you want. 00:44:55.595 --> 00:45:00.540 If you have, like, one of those nukes or koboos or whatever other kind of electronic versions they have. 00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:01.020 Okay. 00:45:01.020 --> 00:45:04.300 And then your your website is fathermatthewlc.com? 00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:04.540 Yeah. 00:45:04.540 --> 00:45:08.880 Frmatthewlc.com or frmatthewlc on any social media. 00:45:09.100 --> 00:45:09.420 Okay. 00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:09.980 That's great. 00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:10.460 Well, thank you. 00:45:10.460 --> 00:45:15.420 It's been a real blessing and and very informative, to talk with you today, father Matthews. 00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:16.515 Thank you very much. 00:45:16.915 --> 00:45:21.415 And Bradley, you did a great job as our guest cohost, so thank you very much. 00:45:21.475 --> 00:45:22.755 Thank you for having me, father. 00:45:22.755 --> 00:45:23.555 I really appreciate it. 00:45:23.555 --> 00:45:26.695 And father and father Matthew, it was wonderful to talk to you as well. 00:45:26.835 --> 00:45:27.975 God bless you, Bradley. 00:45:28.275 --> 00:45:28.935 Thank you.