WEBVTT 00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:09.780 Welcome. 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:11.840 My name is Arthur Charles Zdorska. 00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:23.315 I'm president of Divine Mercy University, and I'm joined here today with, two representatives of at a a great house that they call Life Giving Wounds. 00:00:24.415 --> 00:00:41.840 As you know, there's a crisis in in in the family and marriage today, And Life Giving Wounds, I think, is doing something extremely important, and we're gonna learn more about that, in helping children, of divorced family older children of divorced families. 00:00:41.900 --> 00:00:46.555 So that's Alexander Wolf from, Lake Michigan Rotis is here with us. 00:00:46.555 --> 00:00:47.055 Welcome. 00:00:47.355 --> 00:00:47.595 Yes. 00:00:47.595 --> 00:00:48.155 Thank you, father. 00:00:48.155 --> 00:00:48.795 It's good to be here. 00:00:48.795 --> 00:00:53.915 And then we have a member, here in Indianapolis at the University of Commerce, a member from the Indianapolis chapter. 00:00:53.915 --> 00:00:54.555 She's involved. 00:00:54.555 --> 00:00:55.535 Her name is Amanda. 00:00:55.915 --> 00:00:56.555 Amanda, great. 00:00:56.555 --> 00:00:57.275 Nice to meet you. 00:00:57.275 --> 00:00:57.675 Hi there. 00:00:57.675 --> 00:00:58.530 Great to be here. 00:00:59.490 --> 00:01:05.510 So I was can you tell us a little bit about what what the ministry is and how it got started so far? 00:01:05.570 --> 00:01:05.810 Yeah. 00:01:05.810 --> 00:01:06.050 Sure. 00:01:06.050 --> 00:01:12.150 So Life Giving Wounds is a a nonprofit that, serves, adult children without divorced parents. 00:01:12.275 --> 00:01:15.715 Ten years ago, there was no such ministry, like this. 00:01:15.715 --> 00:01:16.775 It did not exist. 00:01:18.595 --> 00:01:28.250 At the John Paul II Institute in about 2012, there was a conference that compiled a lot of research about marriage, divorce, the effect on the kids. 00:01:28.710 --> 00:01:42.345 And so a classmate of mine and I were at this conference at that time, and, my friend Dan Meola, his name Dan Meola, decided to offer a retreat, very grassroots, very informal in DC in 2015. 00:01:43.925 --> 00:01:46.645 He didn't take out any money to to advertise. 00:01:46.645 --> 00:01:47.785 It was all just word-of-mouth. 00:01:48.245 --> 00:01:54.020 And so those first couple of retreats were just very local, but, I I come from this background as well. 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:59.140 And I hesitated a few years before I went to on it before I was ready. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.720 But then by 2018, I went on the retreat, and I loved it. 00:02:02.720 --> 00:02:13.315 That was also the time when I was starting a job at the Diocese of Arlington, and I decided, let's try to form a chapter and do an annual retreat, a support group, a book club, all kinds of things. 00:02:13.315 --> 00:02:15.815 And so that was the first diocesan chapter. 00:02:15.875 --> 00:02:17.975 Now there's 26, including Indianapolis. 00:02:18.195 --> 00:02:19.075 What do you know? 00:02:19.075 --> 00:02:19.395 Sorry. 00:02:19.395 --> 00:02:29.530 When you say, adult children of divorce, you said these are children who are adults when their parents got divorced or are they younger or pretty good age group? 00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:30.410 Any and all. 00:02:30.730 --> 00:02:37.635 This could be someone whose parents divorced one that when he himself was one year old, or it could be people more like myself. 00:02:37.635 --> 00:02:50.160 My parents divorced when I was a senior in college, and so I didn't do the back and forth dance in in between mom's house, dad's house, but I was still affected in terms of my sense of identity, relating to God as our father, Mary as our mother. 00:02:50.160 --> 00:02:52.000 A lot of these things became an issue for me. 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.380 And so it can affect anyone no matter when it happens. 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:56.180 Yeah. 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.180 And, Amanda, how how did you get involved? 00:02:58.480 --> 00:02:58.640 Yeah. 00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:00.480 I was actually right at the start of COVID. 00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:10.195 I had my first breakup, and I said, I think my parents' situation might have had impact on my ability to be successful in a relationship, and I really wanted to explore that. 00:03:10.255 --> 00:03:13.775 And I was starting spiritual direction, which was a great gift of my parish in that time. 00:03:13.775 --> 00:03:20.630 And then, bam, in my inbox from my diocese, the online retreat for COVID during the COVID time hit my inbox, and I said, wow. 00:03:20.630 --> 00:03:21.530 Grace to God. 00:03:21.590 --> 00:03:22.070 Join that. 00:03:22.070 --> 00:03:34.215 And it was transformative and really helpful to me to opening up that wound and the need to get support and beauty and to also bond with, other people at the church who had been that experience as well. 00:03:35.315 --> 00:03:35.555 Yeah. 00:03:35.555 --> 00:03:37.975 This problem is so so common. 00:03:38.035 --> 00:03:38.435 Right? 00:03:38.435 --> 00:03:38.935 Yeah. 00:03:39.635 --> 00:03:47.890 And people could think the the thing that strikes my interest when you talk about adult children because they were kids, but now they're grown up. 00:03:47.890 --> 00:03:52.370 They should be over it or whatever, you know, or, well, they were grown up as in your case. 00:03:52.370 --> 00:03:53.730 They were in college when it happens. 00:03:53.730 --> 00:03:55.590 So it's probably not that big of a deal. 00:03:55.730 --> 00:03:56.230 Yeah. 00:03:56.575 --> 00:04:00.435 But, yeah, I think because we are relational beings. 00:04:00.495 --> 00:04:00.975 Oh, yeah. 00:04:00.975 --> 00:04:03.155 It's it's it's a core of who we are. 00:04:04.735 --> 00:04:07.215 I you know, it it's it's I did whatever. 00:04:07.215 --> 00:04:11.870 Abe, it's gotta be just gut wrenching and just heartbreaking. 00:04:12.810 --> 00:04:12.970 Yeah. 00:04:12.970 --> 00:04:17.070 And what kind of complicates the matter is that we call it the wound of silence. 00:04:17.130 --> 00:04:22.570 A lot of times children of diverse are spoken for by the parents or the culture. 00:04:22.570 --> 00:04:24.510 The culture says, oh, children are resilient. 00:04:24.995 --> 00:04:25.795 They'll be fine. 00:04:25.795 --> 00:04:26.515 They'll bounce back. 00:04:26.515 --> 00:04:28.135 Oh, look, he does fine at school. 00:04:28.515 --> 00:04:29.475 He he has a job. 00:04:29.475 --> 00:04:29.955 He's fine. 00:04:29.955 --> 00:04:30.595 It's all fine. 00:04:30.595 --> 00:04:33.155 And so we don't have that that place to really speak. 00:04:33.155 --> 00:04:37.955 And so one thing that we address on the retreat is there's other children of divorce there. 00:04:37.955 --> 00:04:38.355 We're out. 00:04:38.355 --> 00:04:43.650 We're able to kind of gather in small groups and share our experiences and really break that silence. 00:04:43.950 --> 00:04:44.670 Oh, that's sad. 00:04:44.670 --> 00:04:53.790 It was a beautiful thing on the retreat recently where how it's such a peer based ministry because you walk in, you see names on the door, and you said, oh, you're here too. 00:04:53.790 --> 00:04:55.570 I don't want you to have to be here. 00:04:55.745 --> 00:05:06.465 But the fact that you're here and we can bond in this and share in this builds incredible community because it's it's the club you didn't know you needed, but you don't wanna be in, and you find so many peers that are kind of afraid to talk about it. 00:05:06.465 --> 00:05:09.185 Just this morning, I met a girl that said, oh, did you know we're meeting up later? 00:05:09.185 --> 00:05:09.585 I said, yeah. 00:05:09.585 --> 00:05:11.850 I'm in charge of that, but I never would have known it. 00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:17.870 It's awkward of, oh, you're in this boat too, but you don't feel free to talk about it, especially around our church communities. 00:05:19.770 --> 00:05:20.170 Wow. 00:05:20.170 --> 00:05:22.590 So, yeah, but I think there's a tendency. 00:05:23.735 --> 00:05:26.215 Well, we don't wanna make the the the couple feel bad. 00:05:26.215 --> 00:05:29.915 We don't wanna be, you know, harsh towards people who've gotten divorced. 00:05:30.695 --> 00:05:45.470 And yet and it's but at the same time and and we don't wanna do that, but at the same time, we tend to by doing that, it seems like we tend to minimize the pain and and the wounds that the children experience. 00:05:46.010 --> 00:05:46.170 Yeah. 00:05:46.170 --> 00:05:46.570 That's right. 00:05:46.570 --> 00:05:48.010 There's a lot of different kinds of wounds. 00:05:48.010 --> 00:05:50.090 I mentioned identity is one thing. 00:05:50.090 --> 00:05:53.645 We look like our parents together, and now they're not together. 00:05:53.645 --> 00:05:57.665 And so that becomes really confusing to bear their image and likeness together. 00:05:58.285 --> 00:06:05.760 Love and relationships is another huge struggle because a lot of there's a lot of confusions, a lot of wounds in in that area as well. 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:09.700 But then also emotions, anger, anxiety, all kinds of things. 00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:16.020 And so you mentioned the retreats and the, I guess, support groups to get together. 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:33.790 What what are some of the, what are some of the key things that so if someone's listening to this, maybe feels alone at first, how could they get in touch with you for a retreat, but also just things things they can do to help with their cross. 00:06:34.170 --> 00:06:34.410 Yeah. 00:06:34.410 --> 00:06:47.275 So, there's a lot of we really, push the in person retreats first and foremost because there's a certain grace that you receive by going away away from it all on a retreat, that you can't exactly replicate fully online. 00:06:47.575 --> 00:06:56.310 But to reach everyone in every corner, we make a lot of the online programs available, which are, I mean, obviously, very good because that's why we continue to do them. 00:06:56.390 --> 00:06:58.470 But, online support groups and online book clubs. 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:00.330 I've done a book club the past four years. 00:07:00.710 --> 00:07:03.530 We read Between Two Worlds by Elizabeth Markowitz. 00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:04.570 She's a sociologist. 00:07:05.830 --> 00:07:13.085 We read Primal Loss by Leila Miller, which she got a lot of fire for from parents who are divorced because they didn't they didn't wanna hear it. 00:07:13.085 --> 00:07:14.605 They didn't wanna feel bad, you know. 00:07:14.605 --> 00:07:22.705 We read Torn Asunder, which was, a lot of the essays that were given at the JP2 Institute, as well as Dan and Bethany's new book, Life Giving Wounds. 00:07:23.110 --> 00:07:29.050 All of these have reached hundreds of adult turnover across The United States. 00:07:29.590 --> 00:07:29.910 Yeah. 00:07:29.910 --> 00:07:32.310 I found both the online and the in person to be helpful. 00:07:32.310 --> 00:07:43.065 I I almost appreciate starting the online because it gave me time to weeks in between to pray and process, but then I got to reinforce it in a live retreat with community and people and prayer. 00:07:43.065 --> 00:07:50.505 Obviously, that's more important, and the best way to have it is in person, but then you're you're supplemented as you go through your journey. 00:07:50.505 --> 00:07:52.840 And if you something comes with prayer and said, hey. 00:07:52.840 --> 00:07:54.200 I need to work through that. 00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.160 Look for a blog post. 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:55.880 Look for an article. 00:07:55.880 --> 00:07:56.600 Reach out to the community. 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:57.960 Say, who has struggled with that as well? 00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:01.260 So the the both online and in person has been really fruitful. 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:02.620 Shane. 00:08:03.880 --> 00:08:09.715 Some of the people who'd be listening to us are priests or spiritual directors who may not have a lot of direct experience. 00:08:10.815 --> 00:08:23.900 What maybe you could did you get some pointers for how should a priest approach this with someone who they know is going through that or or maybe experience that you had that were I'm so glad this is a great thing to really help you or something. 00:08:23.900 --> 00:08:29.280 Are there things that are unhelpful that a priest or a spiritual director might do or say? 00:08:29.340 --> 00:08:32.560 Because I think it's a sometimes there's just a great desire to help someone. 00:08:34.415 --> 00:08:37.055 But some of the great capacity to say the wrong thing at the wrong time. 00:08:37.055 --> 00:08:39.295 So I I don't know if any any advice you give. 00:08:39.295 --> 00:08:39.795 Yeah. 00:08:39.935 --> 00:08:43.455 I I, witnessed something really incredible. 00:08:43.455 --> 00:08:51.060 Just like a couple of months ago, I I met this deacon in the diocese of Arlington, and he I was talking to him about these retreats. 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:56.980 He himself is not a child of divorce, but his friend is going through his parents' divorce. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:11.085 And so this the seminary the seminarian, the deacon, decided to get Dan and Bethany's book and read it along with his friend who's going through all of it so that he could understand from the inside, as it were, what his friend was going through. 00:09:11.085 --> 00:09:16.370 And so that I mean, I I realized priests are busy, especially pastors and, you know, educators. 00:09:16.430 --> 00:09:23.010 And so I know not everyone can just walk through that whole process with, here's one of our retreat alumni. 00:09:24.750 --> 00:09:30.530 Not every priest can can take the time to to read the the full book, but that was just an incredible thing I saw. 00:09:31.065 --> 00:09:32.265 My tips are fairly simple. 00:09:32.265 --> 00:09:39.705 I I think any good priest would know this, but I think empathy and always remembering that not everyone has the, quote, unquote, perfect tongue. 00:09:39.705 --> 00:09:41.885 We know no one does, and there's brokenness everywhere. 00:09:41.945 --> 00:09:46.980 But one of the wounds and challenges you see is either you sometimes have been judged for your family situation. 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:54.600 I know my family was judged, and we were treated differently even though I was not that person and I wasn't making that decision, so I felt ostracized by people in my parish. 00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:58.200 Or, also, you see that big Catholic family with 10 kids in the front row. 00:09:58.420 --> 00:10:00.015 A lot of people didn't have that. 00:10:00.095 --> 00:10:05.295 And remember that you bring gifts, your family brings gifts, your divorced parents bring gifts. 00:10:05.295 --> 00:10:18.030 And so just remember that we all know that that's not picture perfect and most people don't, and any good priest knows that, but just always remembering that that you don't know someone's story, even if they are in that front view as well themselves, bring a great witness. 00:10:18.030 --> 00:10:22.610 They might have come from a past that was unclear to you even as a priest and learn about them in their home. 00:10:23.550 --> 00:10:23.790 Yeah. 00:10:23.790 --> 00:10:27.995 So empathy ends up a nonjudgmental attitude. 00:10:28.215 --> 00:10:28.695 Right? 00:10:28.695 --> 00:10:28.935 Yeah. 00:10:28.935 --> 00:10:29.175 Yeah. 00:10:29.175 --> 00:10:34.215 Two out of three children of divorce report that when their parents were getting divorced, nobody reached out. 00:10:34.215 --> 00:10:35.035 Not a friend. 00:10:35.495 --> 00:10:36.455 No one from the parish. 00:10:36.455 --> 00:10:37.275 Not the priest. 00:10:37.415 --> 00:10:48.120 And so I think as a first response, when a family is breaking down to rush in and make sure that the the kids know there's somewhere to go, that God if no one else, God is always there for them. 00:10:48.180 --> 00:10:48.420 Great. 00:10:48.420 --> 00:10:52.040 I think a common misunderstanding is divorce is forever for everyone. 00:10:52.625 --> 00:10:57.825 So even if it is resolved to a degree or at a healthy place with your family, it it never goes away. 00:10:57.825 --> 00:10:58.945 There's always two Christmases. 00:10:58.945 --> 00:11:00.385 There's always family challenges. 00:11:00.385 --> 00:11:12.600 So helping, just be that the parental support, even the almost a father figure in your church, knowing that they might have to be dealing with things that you don't see, even if they are an adult and had a past, quote, unquote, past it in time. 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:14.180 Yeah. 00:11:14.180 --> 00:11:14.660 So okay. 00:11:14.660 --> 00:11:17.800 So empathy, non judgment, I'll intervene, like Yeah. 00:11:18.020 --> 00:11:21.505 Because that it that could be a very difficult, what do we do? 00:11:21.505 --> 00:11:21.745 You know? 00:11:21.745 --> 00:11:22.225 And Yeah. 00:11:22.385 --> 00:11:23.925 Just show you care. 00:11:23.985 --> 00:11:24.385 Yeah. 00:11:24.385 --> 00:11:26.705 Show you care and that yeah. 00:11:26.705 --> 00:11:26.945 Yeah. 00:11:26.945 --> 00:11:39.130 And two two other, new projects, I'll say, that are kind of coming down the pike for life giving wounds is, a marriage prep module, supplement, I would I should say, called Perfect Love Cast Out Fear. 00:11:39.130 --> 00:11:44.990 This will be for anyone, you know, any couple where one or both come from the background of divorced parents. 00:11:45.130 --> 00:11:54.495 And so they'll be able to go through the the regular marriage prep, but then kinda supplement it with, oh, we had these anxieties going into marriage because of our parents, but we worked through them and here's how. 00:11:54.715 --> 00:11:59.615 But then we're also going to make a, an inroad into college campus ministry. 00:12:00.330 --> 00:12:10.670 That'll be less in a form of retreats and more in the form of small groups so that these, young people with the help of their campus ministers will be able to to start the groundwork early before they go off and get married. 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:13.530 Now you're gonna think this is an unfair question. 00:12:13.530 --> 00:12:14.030 Okay? 00:12:14.335 --> 00:12:16.995 But you both seem to be very passionate about this industry. 00:12:17.615 --> 00:12:21.395 What what is it you know, what is it for you that makes you so passionate? 00:12:21.455 --> 00:12:22.995 Why do you think this is so important? 00:12:24.015 --> 00:12:24.335 Yeah. 00:12:24.335 --> 00:12:28.530 I I'll say, you know, when I first went on the retreat, I was still very hesitant. 00:12:28.530 --> 00:12:29.490 I had heard about it. 00:12:29.490 --> 00:12:31.270 I had put it off for a couple of years. 00:12:31.650 --> 00:12:36.850 And still when I was going on it, I I thought, oh, you know, this retreat, is it just gonna be sad the whole time? 00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:37.970 Is it gonna be lame? 00:12:37.970 --> 00:12:39.270 Is it gonna be tough? 00:12:39.505 --> 00:12:44.865 But I went and as soon as I came as soon as we got to Sunday, I felt this joy, this peace. 00:12:44.865 --> 00:12:52.305 I still knew that I had work to do, work with this or that parent, and I had relationships to mend and stuff there. 00:12:52.305 --> 00:12:58.500 But, I came off that last day with such a joy and kind of, yeah, a fire lit in my belly. 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:05.480 And I I remember thinking because I was starting to work at the Diocese of Arlington at the time, I thought, how can I keep this life giving bread to myself? 00:13:05.540 --> 00:13:06.660 I've got to share it with others. 00:13:06.660 --> 00:13:08.235 I got to tell people where to find this. 00:13:08.235 --> 00:13:12.175 And so I was just impelled to to go and and and start and get involved. 00:13:12.235 --> 00:13:12.735 Yeah. 00:13:12.795 --> 00:13:13.295 Wait. 00:13:13.755 --> 00:13:16.475 I would say I've been so grateful for the way they set it up. 00:13:16.475 --> 00:13:22.460 I think it's very psychologically driven and very, I'm not I'm blanking the right word. 00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:26.720 It's it's driven on real science psychology in addition to theology. 00:13:27.020 --> 00:13:34.800 So the combination of that makes it a wonderful resource that you can't get one or the you might get one or you might get the other, but getting them together. 00:13:35.045 --> 00:13:41.605 And so for me, I realized there were patterns in my life and things that I realized, oh, that that might have come from that. 00:13:41.605 --> 00:13:54.490 And it gave me both the identification and also the tools to start working towards it and then coming, of course, back to the peer ministry of for example, I'm in a small small group with some lovely women, and five of seven of us have divorced parents. 00:13:54.490 --> 00:13:58.650 And we said, oh, we all have this in common, but we don't know what to do with it. 00:13:58.650 --> 00:14:12.525 So it's both helping you identify those challenges, but also help give you tools so you kinda open up this world of there's ways to grow and heal and really impact real change in my life, and I'm getting real tools and support to do that work. 00:14:15.385 --> 00:14:16.345 Just a question now. 00:14:16.345 --> 00:14:22.380 So, at Glen Mercy University, we formed performing the next generation of counselors and psychologists. 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.680 And, you know, what what would you say to them? 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.155 Maybe we're starting with whether they should continue or it's getting too hard. 00:14:31.155 --> 00:14:42.355 A lot of it we we one of the things we have in our program that's not necessarily our program is we do have mandatory courses on marriage and family of therapy, but also, the theology of it. 00:14:42.355 --> 00:14:43.235 We have two courses. 00:14:43.235 --> 00:14:45.400 So one is the therapeutic part. 00:14:45.400 --> 00:14:48.620 The other is what what's what's what's the Christian meaning of marriage? 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.800 And how do you see a need for professionals who are prepared that way? 00:14:53.800 --> 00:14:58.220 And any any tips or encouragement you might wanna give to them? 00:14:58.555 --> 00:14:58.715 Yeah. 00:14:58.715 --> 00:15:08.395 I would say, you know, a lot of us who work with or for Life Giving Wounds with Life Giving Wounds, we're first and foremost peers of those who are going on the on the retreat. 00:15:08.395 --> 00:15:13.440 Some of us have some education that are focused on theology, marriage and family, this kind of thing. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.080 But, most people are not so clinically prepared. 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:30.505 And so on every retreat team, we have a counselor, and we make a lot of referrals at the end of our retreats to counselors in in the area, in Indianapolis and Arlington and DC. 00:15:30.505 --> 00:15:34.365 Wherever there's a chapter, there's a counselor on the retreat and people who are plugged in. 00:15:34.425 --> 00:15:40.285 And so, yeah, I mean, there's things that you can get into with the psychologist that you can't with just a peer. 00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:46.740 But the small groups that we have on the retreat, you won't necessarily be able to find that through a clinic. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:55.715 And so I think it's important to have kind of both camps working with a counselor and or spiritual director and then a kind of community ministry. 00:15:57.375 --> 00:16:02.835 I'd say awareness is a great first step where even though this ministry exists, they can direct people to it. 00:16:02.975 --> 00:16:08.595 If they can have the chance to read the book from Dan and Bethany, it's a great overview of of the biggest topics we cover. 00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:12.510 And I think so when they get to a retreat, they get the tools. 00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:18.670 And there are really tangible things in there that you can even take into counseling then and work through that with your counselor. 00:16:18.670 --> 00:16:23.365 For example, self protective behaviors is a big one for me, and it's it's vice and virtue. 00:16:23.365 --> 00:16:25.925 And I can say this by counselor and say, work through this with me. 00:16:25.925 --> 00:16:31.145 Here's a template we can start guiding our conversation and use that as a tool while we work together in one on one. 00:16:32.565 --> 00:16:34.565 Well, you know, we're we're incarnational beings. 00:16:34.565 --> 00:16:34.805 Right? 00:16:34.805 --> 00:16:36.725 There's the human part and the spiritual part. 00:16:36.725 --> 00:16:40.280 And we can distinguish, but you can't separate those two parts. 00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:43.420 And so working together is so critically important. 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:49.340 And it's, it's just wonderful to learn about this ministry that you are offering these kinds of retreats. 00:16:51.785 --> 00:16:53.065 How can people get in touch with you? 00:16:53.065 --> 00:16:55.245 Do they wanna get involved or start a chapter? 00:16:55.785 --> 00:16:56.345 Or Yeah. 00:16:56.345 --> 00:17:00.185 So the website, I think, is the easiest way, lifegivingwounds.org. 00:17:00.185 --> 00:17:01.625 There's no dashes or anything there. 00:17:01.625 --> 00:17:04.440 Just the three words, lifegivingwounds.org. 00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:17.160 And there you can find the, retreats in person, online, the support groups, the book clubs, the social events, the chapter nearest to you, projects, the book that we've been mentioning. 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:24.895 It's all there's a blog that's full of experiences, stories of healing shared by people who have gone on the retreat. 00:17:24.895 --> 00:17:26.175 There's a whole resource. 00:17:26.175 --> 00:17:27.075 There's podcasts. 00:17:27.215 --> 00:17:29.935 There's lists of recommended readings. 00:17:29.935 --> 00:17:31.920 There's just a whole bunch of resources there. 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.380 And I have a challenge as listening. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:38.080 If you don't if you find online there's nothing for you in your city, take advantage of the online. 00:17:38.080 --> 00:17:39.300 Take advantage of the resources. 00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:40.240 Maybe travel. 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:41.600 We had a retreat here in Indiana. 00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:42.720 People came from four states. 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.460 It was wonderful. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:48.395 And then once you can be introduced to it, take it to your diocese and your family offices and say, hey. 00:17:48.395 --> 00:17:50.495 This is a really need a need in the church. 00:17:50.635 --> 00:17:57.615 Can we find a way to have it in our ministry and support it and fund it and bring it into our city so it can be can grow fruit? 00:17:58.680 --> 00:17:58.840 Okay. 00:17:58.840 --> 00:17:59.800 Well, thank you, Amanda. 00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:00.700 Thank you, Alexander. 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:11.025 And I think, you know, if you're suffering with this word, this pain, this cross, when your children a child is divorced, I think it's great news. 00:18:11.025 --> 00:18:11.745 You're not alone. 00:18:11.745 --> 00:18:17.745 I have many great resources for you, and it's a whole theme as well, of course, of this University of Congress where we are. 00:18:17.745 --> 00:18:18.545 We are not alone. 00:18:18.545 --> 00:18:21.905 The Christ is with us each and every step of the way. 00:18:21.905 --> 00:18:25.880 So, thank you for being with us, and God bless you. 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:26.940 God bless your ministry. 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:27.820 Thank you, father.