WEBVTT 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.940 Welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast sponsored by Divine Mercy University. 00:00:14.545 --> 00:00:15.765 My name is Thomas Kronquist. 00:00:15.905 --> 00:00:19.525 I'm the cohost with father Charles Sikorsky, the president of DMU. 00:00:19.825 --> 00:00:21.365 Father Charles, how are you today? 00:00:21.665 --> 00:00:22.945 I'm doing great, Tom. 00:00:22.945 --> 00:00:26.165 Looking forward to our next, part here with George. 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:39.480 Well, as you know, we have a very interesting episode again this afternoon with, George Forsyth, who was a policeman for twenty five years, then became a therapist after earning his, counseling degree here at DMU. 00:00:40.245 --> 00:00:55.380 And in his practice, he sees only first responders, and he's gonna tell us more about his experience as a police officer and the mental health challenges first first responders face, especially PTSD and and some of the therapies and advice and counseling he he gives them. 00:00:55.380 --> 00:00:59.160 So, George, welcome again to the to the Call to Flourish podcast. 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:00.500 Thank you. 00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:02.120 It's a pleasure to be here again. 00:01:03.955 --> 00:01:09.655 It sounds like so you you know, in your current work, you're seeing police and firefighters and maybe military? 00:01:10.595 --> 00:01:11.635 I certainly would see them. 00:01:11.635 --> 00:01:13.415 I see I see police, firefighters. 00:01:13.555 --> 00:01:18.855 I'll tell you two groups that I don't see enough of, but I see that really need to get more attention. 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:23.120 Correctional officers, I mean, they are the ultimate first responders. 00:01:23.580 --> 00:01:24.740 You can't get in there. 00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:27.580 You know, the police they can't call the police or the fire department. 00:01:27.580 --> 00:01:31.365 They have to let the police or fire department in after they've already gone to whatever they went to. 00:01:31.445 --> 00:01:35.385 And they have shootings, rapes, assaults, suicides. 00:01:36.245 --> 00:01:38.425 And the other one is, dispatchers. 00:01:39.605 --> 00:01:43.785 Dispatchers have to hear this and go right to the next call. 00:01:43.925 --> 00:01:46.345 They can hear officers whom they know screaming. 00:01:46.700 --> 00:01:50.560 They hear women screaming that they're that somebody's breaking in the house. 00:01:50.860 --> 00:01:53.520 They'll hear somebody screaming holding somebody who's dying. 00:01:54.060 --> 00:01:57.280 I never thought of that, but that's can you imagine that? 00:01:57.340 --> 00:02:03.495 Well, like, I'm not even one operator, but it but the actually, at the police department where you're getting Yeah. 00:02:04.035 --> 00:02:12.435 And you're talking I didn't realize until, you know, people who seek therapy in those lines of work are some of the bravest people in the world. 00:02:12.435 --> 00:02:17.430 So there were some dispatchers who were brave enough to say, I need to go talk to somebody, get some help. 00:02:17.990 --> 00:02:22.730 And I hope I helped them, but I definitely got an education as to their experiences. 00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:25.990 So, you know, you're seeing these people in therapy. 00:02:25.990 --> 00:02:35.775 You you mentioned you also, get asked from time to time to give talks to different, I guess, groups or offices or different precincts. 00:02:35.775 --> 00:02:36.895 I don't know what they would be called. 00:02:36.895 --> 00:02:51.770 But so just comes to mind, you know, how many are do most departments have services for this where you would call it I don't know, like, compassion fatigue or or just self care. 00:02:51.770 --> 00:02:55.150 And is that to what degree is that lacking? 00:02:55.530 --> 00:03:06.155 And, you know, how could more efforts be made to to help officers not just fall into all these these these terrible You're starting to see it more. 00:03:06.615 --> 00:03:09.435 The peer support movement is is huge. 00:03:10.295 --> 00:03:12.215 Critical incident teams, I can't remember. 00:03:12.215 --> 00:03:13.515 They call them different things. 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:21.340 Critical incident you know, so if there's a critical incident, they have peers who will come and check on you at a lot of the especially the bigger departments. 00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:33.185 Here in Maryland, Baltimore City, for example, Vernon Herron, who used to be a Maryland state trooper, goes all over the country giving talks on resilience, Gunny and Prince George's County. 00:03:33.425 --> 00:03:37.665 They they're working with officers and they have peer support teams in place. 00:03:37.665 --> 00:03:44.240 I got a call today from a peer support member of a fire department where a firefighter had a traumatic incident and struggling. 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:46.480 Would I be willing to talk to him? 00:03:46.540 --> 00:03:53.680 So you see a lot with the peer support, crisis response teams, that you've seen a lot with them. 00:03:53.980 --> 00:03:58.145 One of the problems is, I've heard it before, and I'm not saying this is true. 00:03:58.145 --> 00:04:07.185 This is a perception sometimes people have, is that if I go speak to somebody who's part of the agency, well, then the agency's gonna know what I'm talking about. 00:04:07.185 --> 00:04:07.585 You know? 00:04:07.585 --> 00:04:24.320 But at the end of the day, if I'm a therapist working for the, you know, ABC Police Department, well, the AC ABC Police Department signs my paycheck, and that's a lot of power to tell me what is officer Jones talking about. 00:04:25.185 --> 00:04:26.625 We need to do this or that. 00:04:26.625 --> 00:04:32.165 So I get quite a few who have been they'll come see me because they don't really wanna talk to the department. 00:04:32.625 --> 00:04:34.965 Trust is huge in this population anyways. 00:04:35.185 --> 00:04:39.125 This population if there's a population that struggles with trust, this is it. 00:04:39.610 --> 00:04:43.450 And in your background, I would imagine that helps the trust. 00:04:43.450 --> 00:04:48.510 Like, would they even would most of these folks even consider someone who who hasn't been in the profession? 00:04:49.370 --> 00:04:49.930 Some would. 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:59.515 I mean, there's there's plenty of therapists right here in Maryland who who work with first responders, you know, the, who work with an alliance is an alliance. 00:04:59.515 --> 00:05:04.395 If you trust somebody and they're willing to listen, you know, for example, dispatchers. 00:05:04.395 --> 00:05:13.150 You know, I I was never a dispatcher, but, I know enough about what they do, and now I've been educated by them where I where I can help them. 00:05:13.210 --> 00:05:20.430 But there are a lot of people who call me for the only reason is I called you because you were a police officer. 00:05:20.490 --> 00:05:22.090 I I don't really even advertise. 00:05:22.090 --> 00:05:28.405 It's I'm on Psychology Today like everybody is, but I don't have any advertising, like, other than a website. 00:05:28.405 --> 00:05:29.525 I have a Facebook page. 00:05:29.525 --> 00:05:34.025 You know, Driftwood Psychotherapy has a Driftwood Facebook page, but it's all word-of-mouth. 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:35.240 Word-of-mouth. 00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:35.780 Yeah. 00:05:35.780 --> 00:05:47.400 And different well, there's a treatment facility, for example, here in Maryland called Harbor of Grace where that's for addictions, mostly addictions, trauma also, for all first responders. 00:05:48.435 --> 00:05:56.915 So everybody in there from all over the country is a first responder, and I have, I've got I've sent a lot of people there, and they send people to me. 00:05:56.915 --> 00:05:59.975 So things like that, but mostly word-of-mouth. 00:06:00.035 --> 00:06:07.800 Like, I remember there was one point there was a a firefighter and then he must have referred, like, three or four of his of the firefighters. 00:06:07.860 --> 00:06:09.060 It was it was a joke. 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:13.720 I used to tell him, I said, man, you know, maybe we should have a group of you and all you and all your friends. 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:15.400 Just do it. 00:06:16.895 --> 00:06:27.795 You know, we we talked a little bit at the beginning about first, we have this incredibly stressful occupation and so many different traumatic experiences they go through. 00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:34.720 And now, you know, we've seen the last several years and, obviously, we're not saying every police officer is an angel. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.700 Sometimes police do the wrong thing, clearly. 00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:46.605 But there's been quite a reaction to, you know, police crimes. 00:06:46.985 --> 00:06:47.485 Yep. 00:06:47.865 --> 00:06:50.105 And and do you see that? 00:06:50.105 --> 00:06:52.205 Is that making it even more stressful? 00:06:52.425 --> 00:06:55.545 And, you know, and also, you know, with the body cameras, maybe that's a good thing. 00:06:55.545 --> 00:06:56.185 I don't know. 00:06:56.185 --> 00:07:01.100 But just this idea of not you're in life and death situations many times. 00:07:03.320 --> 00:07:13.020 So you you've got sort of this growing dislike of police, but also maybe feeling like their hands are now tied behind their back. 00:07:14.045 --> 00:07:29.630 How do you see that as as as far as morale and stress and and this whole difficulty that they have to do, you know, to do such a thing that which on the other hand, what a noble heroic way to live and to serve the common good and to serve our society. 00:07:29.630 --> 00:07:34.930 So have you seen that escalation, I guess, of of some of these problems because of that? 00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:36.050 Absolutely. 00:07:36.190 --> 00:07:38.130 The the stress level is incredible. 00:07:38.430 --> 00:07:42.125 There are you know, I hear all the time, you know, I'm not afraid of getting in trouble. 00:07:42.125 --> 00:07:43.425 I'm afraid of getting arrested. 00:07:43.565 --> 00:07:46.465 Not even because I did anything wrong, but because there's a riot. 00:07:46.765 --> 00:07:47.005 Mhmm. 00:07:47.005 --> 00:07:54.045 You know, in Baltimore City, they arrested six officers and had to drop all the charges on all of them because they never should have been arrested in the first place. 00:07:54.045 --> 00:07:57.420 But there's a riot, you know, so they they arrested them. 00:07:58.520 --> 00:08:00.940 The other there's a fear out there now. 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:03.500 A fear of and most it's a misconception. 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:12.935 The overwhelming majority of police officers like having body cams because it way reduces the false complaints. 00:08:13.075 --> 00:08:20.215 It way reduces, this guy made a racial or sexual slur to me because you're mad at him and you wanna punish him. 00:08:20.435 --> 00:08:21.235 So well, okay. 00:08:21.235 --> 00:08:22.535 Then let's go to the camera. 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:24.240 Camera will say. 00:08:24.460 --> 00:08:28.560 Now, but the camera also catches things that aren't necessarily a crime. 00:08:28.940 --> 00:08:31.200 You know, the language can get a little rough sometimes. 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:32.780 It it gets a little heated. 00:08:32.780 --> 00:08:33.600 There are humans. 00:08:33.660 --> 00:08:36.320 You know, if they're being cussed at, they may cuss back. 00:08:36.775 --> 00:08:40.055 And so they can get in trouble for that, you know, with the cameras and everything. 00:08:40.055 --> 00:08:47.755 But most officers like the body cameras the body camera protects them more than hurts them. 00:08:47.815 --> 00:08:48.055 Mhmm. 00:08:48.295 --> 00:08:50.340 They they they actually like having them. 00:08:50.420 --> 00:08:53.000 But with the climate, now I think it might be changing. 00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.000 I think the climate is changing. 00:08:55.060 --> 00:08:55.720 Oh, no. 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:01.140 There's just a rush to judgment that the police are wrong. 00:09:01.140 --> 00:09:06.345 You can show a video clip of three seconds without showing the whole video clip. 00:09:07.365 --> 00:09:16.905 You know, Baltimore City had a shooting not too long ago of a a a young male who got shot in the back by a police officer. 00:09:17.510 --> 00:09:28.570 I think it was the one of the newspapers or the news, police shoot a black teen in the back. 00:09:29.110 --> 00:09:35.175 Well, somebody showed the pic posted the picture of the kid running with clearly a handgun in his hand. 00:09:35.635 --> 00:09:43.095 So, yeah, I may be shooting, but the article doesn't say, was my partner coming around the counter corner and was gonna be head first with this guy with a gun? 00:09:43.155 --> 00:09:46.290 Was he running to get behind something so he has some cover to shoot back? 00:09:46.370 --> 00:09:47.990 Article doesn't go into all that. 00:09:48.050 --> 00:09:57.650 It just makes it as inflammatory as it can possibly be without and the police, a police officer, he's not allowed to get on the news and say, woah. 00:09:57.650 --> 00:09:59.010 This that's wrong. 00:09:59.010 --> 00:09:59.890 Here's what happened. 00:09:59.890 --> 00:10:01.030 He can't say nothing. 00:10:01.945 --> 00:10:10.765 So, sure, are there horrible things that the problem is when a police officer does something when they do something bad, it's usually really bad. 00:10:11.225 --> 00:10:13.145 That's that's really bad. 00:10:13.145 --> 00:10:18.280 If a police officer, if he gets drunk, you know, he's smashed, he's crashing into a McDonald's or something. 00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:20.360 It's just, everything is big. 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:29.895 And so when those things happen on the news, I always say, if it happened all the time, it wouldn't make the news. 00:10:30.355 --> 00:10:35.815 For example, Baltimore City had has about 300 homicides a year. 00:10:36.675 --> 00:10:37.815 Name one of them. 00:10:38.595 --> 00:10:39.335 You can't. 00:10:40.275 --> 00:10:42.055 Name name name one of the situations. 00:10:42.710 --> 00:10:47.450 You you really wouldn't be able to you have to really think to come up with one of the shootings. 00:10:47.990 --> 00:10:48.490 Why? 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:50.730 Because it happens all the time. 00:10:51.350 --> 00:10:53.210 It's second page news. 00:10:53.750 --> 00:10:57.085 Man shot another man on such and such street. 00:10:57.545 --> 00:11:05.865 But when police, you know, a police officer does it in Utah or something or, you know, Illinois, it's national news all over the place. 00:11:05.865 --> 00:11:08.525 And the reason is because it doesn't happen all the time. 00:11:08.665 --> 00:11:09.645 It is unusual. 00:11:09.945 --> 00:11:11.700 People are still shocked by it. 00:11:12.660 --> 00:11:18.580 And also there's a there's a segment of the population that does want to defund the police that that I don't I don't know why. 00:11:18.580 --> 00:11:24.120 I think they they get to there's money, get the money from it or something. 00:11:25.645 --> 00:11:28.445 Organizations that get money from this kind of thing. 00:11:29.085 --> 00:11:35.325 So, yeah, the officers, that is an ex a large part of their stress right now on the police end. 00:11:35.325 --> 00:11:38.385 That is a a large part of it. 00:11:40.780 --> 00:11:43.180 Across the board, first responders are under a lot of stress. 00:11:43.180 --> 00:11:45.180 But police, that's their biggest one. 00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:46.560 Oh, that's a major one. 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:47.440 Right. 00:11:47.660 --> 00:11:48.160 Wow. 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:50.300 I hear it all I literally hear it all the time. 00:11:50.300 --> 00:11:58.785 If a new officer comes in here, if he doesn't tell me the stress of the current climate out there, I'd be amazed. 00:11:59.005 --> 00:12:16.900 And just so, for those who might be considering a counseling degree or maybe even our first responders themselves and maybe looking thinking about a second career, what would your what would your advice or what would your and they're trying to discern this. 00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:18.840 Would you have any thoughts or words for them? 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:20.360 Please. 00:12:21.140 --> 00:12:21.620 Please. 00:12:21.620 --> 00:12:22.600 I'll help you. 00:12:23.780 --> 00:12:24.735 Please do it. 00:12:25.295 --> 00:12:36.275 There are there are in Maryland, there are already people who are, were police officers, retired police officers, who are, therapists. 00:12:37.615 --> 00:12:46.410 And I hear all the time from police officers or firefighters who are like, yeah, I would really like to do what you do. 00:12:46.470 --> 00:12:47.610 And they would be excellent. 00:12:47.910 --> 00:12:49.130 They would really be excellent. 00:12:50.710 --> 00:12:51.510 Please do it. 00:12:51.510 --> 00:13:00.855 You know, I'm I'm gonna be expanding, and I would love I would love to find somebody, who was a first responder at one time who could who could help. 00:13:00.915 --> 00:13:04.195 You know, I I'm gonna I I'm just getting so many requests. 00:13:04.195 --> 00:13:09.015 I'd like to just expand here, and, you know, I could see more. 00:13:10.470 --> 00:13:12.650 So, yeah, I would say definitely do it. 00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:22.935 And definitely go to Divine Mercy University, especially if, because, they really do, Divine Mercy University really does, they have, some professors there. 00:13:23.335 --> 00:13:26.955 Doctor Keyes comes to mind who is an expert in trauma. 00:13:27.495 --> 00:13:28.075 You know? 00:13:28.455 --> 00:13:28.775 Yeah. 00:13:28.775 --> 00:13:44.350 And I you've mentioned that before, and I know you've gone through his, well, there's a trauma course in the counseling program, but there's also a continuing education unit led by doctor Keyes, which, deals with all kinds of trauma and PTSD. 00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:46.090 Yeah. 00:13:46.090 --> 00:13:51.150 I suppose that's why you've got interested just seeing all of this, you know, that experience of PTSD. 00:13:52.075 --> 00:13:52.155 Yeah. 00:13:52.155 --> 00:13:53.195 The Green Cross. 00:13:53.195 --> 00:13:55.835 His green the Green Cross classes Mhmm. 00:13:56.075 --> 00:13:57.675 That are taught by doctor Keyes. 00:13:57.675 --> 00:14:04.735 So first of all, he is an expert, national expert, probably international expert when it comes to trauma and treating trauma. 00:14:05.115 --> 00:14:06.120 He's teaching you. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.780 If we you know, you get a weekend of the Friday and a Saturday with with him. 00:14:11.640 --> 00:14:22.885 I've learned more from that guy than, you know I I know I drove him crazy through the years, but, like, I drive everybody crazy, but I have really learned a lot from that guy. 00:14:22.885 --> 00:14:36.080 And so the Green Cross classes, you can have there's domestic violence classes on working with domestic violence, classes on child sexual trauma. 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:41.760 There's classes on compassion fatigue, classes on PTSD. 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:56.355 It'd be great for some of these peer support organizations to send their guy their their people to that and get some extra training for what's a really reasonable price, even EMDR, eye movement desensitization desensitization reprocessing. 00:14:56.575 --> 00:14:59.430 I use that with trauma all the time. 00:15:00.130 --> 00:15:03.910 He teaches it there cheaper than you could find it anywhere. 00:15:04.130 --> 00:15:04.630 K. 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:21.565 Your training at Divine Mercy University is not not just the best scientific theories, but we also wanna blend faith and, you know, values and virtues and so forth into therapy. 00:15:21.565 --> 00:15:34.200 And, you know, do you use any, do you have any special patrons or or people that you'd look to to to inspire that way or to inspire your clients? 00:15:36.900 --> 00:15:44.305 I for me personally, who inspires me is I came across a story of, father Solanus Casey. 00:15:45.645 --> 00:15:49.905 I believe he died like he was alive when they could take black and white pictures. 00:15:50.045 --> 00:15:50.765 I I know that. 00:15:50.765 --> 00:15:53.565 So I think in the fifties, nineteen fifties or something he died. 00:15:53.565 --> 00:15:56.830 And father Solanus, I liked him. 00:15:56.830 --> 00:15:59.470 He was an Irish family, large family. 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:03.230 Family was so large that they'd have to split up mass. 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:06.270 One Sunday, the horse and carriage would take one half of the family. 00:16:06.270 --> 00:16:08.530 The next Sunday would take the other half of the family. 00:16:08.965 --> 00:16:13.705 And so large Irish family, parents were from Ireland, but he was born in this country. 00:16:14.165 --> 00:16:19.625 As a matter of fact, if he's canonized, I think I heard he'd be the first American born, saint. 00:16:20.325 --> 00:16:24.140 I believe there's a there there's a female, I think. 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:24.920 Oh, yeah. 00:16:24.920 --> 00:16:25.080 Yeah. 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:26.200 The men have to catch up. 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:26.360 Yeah. 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:27.720 We have of course, we have mother Seaton. 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:27.960 Right? 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:28.440 She Yeah. 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.520 That's the that's the one I was thinking of, mother Seaton. 00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:34.140 But so Salinas Casey had a lot of different jobs. 00:16:34.235 --> 00:16:38.975 I read he was a correctional or jail guard, correctional officer of some form. 00:16:39.355 --> 00:16:44.175 He was a trolley operator, security guard, all these different jobs. 00:16:44.715 --> 00:16:48.690 And, he decided he was gonna be a his brother was a priest. 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:51.190 His brother became a priest, entered the seminary, became a priest. 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:52.790 He was gonna do the same thing. 00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:57.350 And he went to a seminary that was German. 00:16:57.570 --> 00:16:58.610 Classes were in German. 00:16:58.610 --> 00:17:02.685 It was a German seminary, and he didn't speak German. 00:17:02.745 --> 00:17:13.325 So right away, you know, he was in in a way, he was like a cop going to a college that doesn't speak counseling. 00:17:13.545 --> 00:17:13.945 You know? 00:17:13.945 --> 00:17:22.100 So, the, and in my early days, well, I'll tell you a real quick story with father Sharp. 00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:26.980 I mean, professor Sharp was one of the early residencies at Divine Mercy. 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:35.035 We had to role play, and I was role playing with this young woman who was role she was role playing that she was a bullied high school girl, and I had to counsel her. 00:17:35.035 --> 00:17:36.395 And they knew we weren't counselors. 00:17:36.395 --> 00:17:40.335 They just wanted us to to work with them, to to learn some of the skills. 00:17:41.435 --> 00:17:45.060 I was lost in, like, two minutes. 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.420 In two minutes, I had not three minutes, I had nothing. 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.080 I wanted to solve the problem. 00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:51.520 There is no problem solving it. 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:53.600 So 14 year old who's getting bullied in school. 00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:56.740 Unless I went and body guarded her, there would be no solution. 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.080 And I didn't know what to do. 00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:03.945 And so, he asked me, he said, George, it looks like you're stuck. 00:18:04.245 --> 00:18:05.385 And I said, yes. 00:18:05.445 --> 00:18:06.425 I am stuck. 00:18:06.885 --> 00:18:09.705 And he said, weren't you some kind of undercover cop? 00:18:10.485 --> 00:18:11.365 And I said, yes. 00:18:11.365 --> 00:18:12.425 I guess I was. 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:19.380 So what I want you to do is pretend you're an undercover cop working as a drug count working as a counselor. 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:21.620 Man, it clucked. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:31.245 I just went into role playing mode and pretended I was I was doing what I thought counselors would do to make you believe I was a counselor, and it helped. 00:18:31.545 --> 00:18:33.625 But, anyway, Salinas backed up on this case. 00:18:33.625 --> 00:18:38.025 Salinas case, he, so he went to the German seminary. 00:18:38.025 --> 00:18:42.285 He doesn't speak German, so his grades were poor, and he barely graduated. 00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:47.940 Not that he was unintelligent, it's just there was a language barrier. 00:18:48.560 --> 00:18:53.860 And so, he became a monk, and he was at a monastery. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:01.415 And the rules were he could not hear confession, and he could not preach a homily. 00:19:02.595 --> 00:19:10.960 I guess because of his his theology wasn't as up to snuff or wasn't in past the theology portions. 00:19:12.140 --> 00:19:17.500 So they didn't want him up there, you know, preaching when he didn't even know the fact that they thought he didn't even know the theology. 00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:21.040 So they gave him the job as porter, which the porter, he sits at the front. 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:25.045 And anybody coming to the monastery drop dropping off a package. 00:19:25.045 --> 00:19:26.025 I want a prayer. 00:19:26.565 --> 00:19:28.105 I need some help with food. 00:19:28.325 --> 00:19:29.925 Can you pray for my sick child? 00:19:29.925 --> 00:19:31.045 Can I get some advice? 00:19:31.045 --> 00:19:31.545 Whatever. 00:19:31.925 --> 00:19:34.505 First stop at the monastery is the porter. 00:19:35.765 --> 00:19:51.310 And he became so well known for two things, his listening and his advice, that they're pictures of lines, people lining up to come into the monastery to see him, even people of other faiths. 00:19:51.310 --> 00:20:01.005 There's there's pictures of orthodox Jewish people coming to him to get advice as a as a holy man, you know, and and, that's what he became known for. 00:20:01.225 --> 00:20:08.740 So he's always been a encouragement to me because I'm I'm smart, but not that smart. 00:20:08.800 --> 00:20:10.080 I'm smart. 00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:10.800 I'm smart. 00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:10.880 I'm smart. 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.340 I'm I'm smart enough. 00:20:12.800 --> 00:20:13.620 Smart enough. 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.440 But I'm not I'm not I'm certainly not the best therapist out there. 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.020 I am definitely not the best therapist out there. 00:20:20.345 --> 00:20:25.325 And, if you haven't noticed, I I do like to talk, and I do struggle with listening. 00:20:25.465 --> 00:20:28.045 I would I could talk more than I listen. 00:20:28.265 --> 00:20:34.185 So he became an inspiration to me, as somebody who is just known to be a deep listener. 00:20:34.185 --> 00:20:38.790 So I keep his statue next to my clock, which is the client sit here. 00:20:38.850 --> 00:20:43.410 There's a clock where I can kinda keep track of the time, and it's not a distraction for them. 00:20:43.410 --> 00:20:46.870 I could look right by them and see the clock, and he's right there. 00:20:47.010 --> 00:20:48.470 And there's been many times. 00:20:48.875 --> 00:20:49.915 I've looked over. 00:20:49.915 --> 00:20:50.955 Here's this statue. 00:20:50.955 --> 00:20:51.995 I put it over here. 00:20:51.995 --> 00:20:57.615 I've looked over and seen that expression looking at me like George, stop talking. 00:20:58.635 --> 00:21:00.875 I'm getting that expression actually right now. 00:21:00.875 --> 00:21:02.715 I'm actually getting that expression right now. 00:21:02.715 --> 00:21:03.935 George, stop talking. 00:21:05.340 --> 00:21:08.060 So So well, that was great. 00:21:08.060 --> 00:21:08.380 Yeah. 00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:20.805 So what I well, actually, an interesting person for maybe maybe a patron of counseling because it all starts with listening and, you know, even in in spiritual counseling or spiritual direction. 00:21:20.805 --> 00:21:27.465 I know you help out, you have helped out with our spiritual direction course in teaching doing those role plays. 00:21:27.925 --> 00:21:28.405 Yeah. 00:21:28.405 --> 00:21:29.445 I supervise them. 00:21:29.445 --> 00:21:29.850 Yeah. 00:21:30.090 --> 00:21:30.330 Yeah. 00:21:30.330 --> 00:21:37.870 Because it sounds like you have a real gift for role plays, given all the different roles you've had to had to play. 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:38.490 Yeah. 00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:40.410 I've played a lot of different roles. 00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:40.890 Yeah. 00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:41.390 Yeah. 00:21:41.770 --> 00:21:42.270 Wow. 00:21:43.850 --> 00:21:44.750 Very good. 00:21:45.315 --> 00:21:49.635 Do you feel like you are, responding to the calling you, you heard? 00:21:49.635 --> 00:21:53.315 Are you are you aware you think the Lord has called you? 00:21:53.315 --> 00:21:57.655 Do you feel fulfilled now in, in in your vocation as it were? 00:21:58.755 --> 00:22:00.775 That is an excellent question. 00:22:01.290 --> 00:22:02.410 Really excellent question. 00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:03.790 One I think about a lot. 00:22:05.290 --> 00:22:06.250 I hope I am. 00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:07.390 I feel like I am. 00:22:07.530 --> 00:22:09.850 I I feel at peace in what I'm doing. 00:22:09.850 --> 00:22:11.550 I really feel like this is a ministry. 00:22:13.290 --> 00:22:22.195 I I sometimes wonder, you know, I I like to I'm a visual guy, and I like to visualize, you know, gospel stories and everything else. 00:22:22.195 --> 00:22:23.735 And I visualize myself. 00:22:24.035 --> 00:22:30.370 Sometimes I'll visualize myself with my picture of what Jesus would look like, talking with him. 00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:39.090 And I remember one time, I I was doing it and, the the I was like, you know, what what's next? 00:22:39.390 --> 00:22:41.730 I was trying to get, like, what's next out of him. 00:22:42.045 --> 00:22:43.965 And it wasn't a calling or anything. 00:22:43.965 --> 00:22:45.485 It wasn't a spiritual experience. 00:22:45.485 --> 00:22:48.945 And I'm not saying Jesus talked to me, but when I was thinking about this or maybe he did. 00:22:49.165 --> 00:22:50.385 I could see him laughing. 00:22:51.005 --> 00:22:53.820 And he said and he hit me on the back, and he said, I guess we'll see. 00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:56.160 Like, I know, but you don't know. 00:22:56.300 --> 00:22:57.580 So Yeah. 00:22:57.580 --> 00:22:58.380 That's a great one. 00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.440 Come follow me. 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:00.060 Where? 00:23:00.060 --> 00:23:00.300 Yeah. 00:23:00.300 --> 00:23:01.820 I don't know where Come follow me. 00:23:01.820 --> 00:23:02.700 Trust me. 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:02.940 Yeah. 00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:04.780 I don't I don't know where things will lead. 00:23:04.780 --> 00:23:06.860 I'm trying to get out of my own way. 00:23:06.860 --> 00:23:08.880 I surrendered my schedule to God. 00:23:09.795 --> 00:23:11.095 I work on surrender. 00:23:11.875 --> 00:23:15.335 So, you know, where he leads, I'm gonna I'm gonna go. 00:23:15.395 --> 00:23:19.415 And, George, I understand you just, you're completing a book about your experiences. 00:23:20.355 --> 00:23:24.615 Tell us just a for a moment about that, and when when would that come out? 00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:29.250 I'm hoping it'll be out by the time this airs on amazon.com. 00:23:29.250 --> 00:23:29.990 It's done. 00:23:30.370 --> 00:23:34.310 It's just I'm doing the Amazon administrative stuff. 00:23:34.610 --> 00:23:41.605 And that book is called, I am that Centaurian by me, George Forsyth. 00:23:42.305 --> 00:23:44.565 My Journey from Cop to Counselor. 00:23:45.265 --> 00:23:57.700 And I use that book to go into anything I thought was a big part of what led to this, this call today looking backwards. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.180 Child things that happened in my childhood. 00:24:01.120 --> 00:24:02.660 Experiences that I've had. 00:24:04.095 --> 00:24:05.395 Law enforcement stories. 00:24:05.535 --> 00:24:07.695 Under I put stories in there of undercover. 00:24:07.695 --> 00:24:10.015 I have a story in there about when I was in jail undercover. 00:24:10.015 --> 00:24:13.635 I have a story about my own trauma where I worked an undercover deal at gunpoint. 00:24:14.335 --> 00:24:23.800 I've I've, and then it ends with there's a a part of the gospel where the centurion at the cross was always real powerful for me. 00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:28.860 So I identified with that particular that centurion. 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:32.185 And so I kinda tie it all together at the end of the book with that. 00:24:32.185 --> 00:24:36.125 But it's called I Am That Centurion, My Journey From Cop to Counselor. 00:24:36.905 --> 00:24:39.805 Hopefully, it'll be out by the time this is airs. 00:24:40.265 --> 00:24:45.805 You know, and the centurion, I love that name and that image that you're using there, you know, for your book. 00:24:47.630 --> 00:24:51.170 Reminds me of, you know, moving to Passion of Christ at the end. 00:24:52.990 --> 00:25:06.515 You know, the centurion, when the blood comes out of Christ, it splashes on him and he just gets down on his knees that that that contact with Christ just overwhelmed him and converts him. 00:25:06.515 --> 00:25:27.110 And, you know, you know, it's the way I think our lord you never know when he's gonna reach out and splash us with that with that with his love, his grace, and the way, you know, his very being, his blood that helps us to to realize who he is and just can just changes our lives. 00:25:27.110 --> 00:25:29.370 That's what happened to the centurion there at the cross. 00:25:31.155 --> 00:25:38.695 Can you imagine you just realized that you executed the savior of the world? 00:25:40.275 --> 00:25:42.135 Can you imagine how that would hit? 00:25:44.020 --> 00:25:46.200 That's a great that's a great thing to think about. 00:25:46.340 --> 00:25:46.840 Okay. 00:25:47.540 --> 00:25:50.760 In in a certain in a certain sense, we we, we all did. 00:25:51.380 --> 00:25:51.780 Yeah. 00:25:51.780 --> 00:25:53.320 Your teachers as we did. 00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:53.540 Mhmm. 00:25:53.540 --> 00:25:56.520 Because of our our sins and our failings, we did. 00:25:57.375 --> 00:26:05.135 So, well, George, I wanna thank you so much for joining us in this podcast, and, we're gonna have you back and talk more. 00:26:05.135 --> 00:26:05.935 I love that. 00:26:05.935 --> 00:26:06.415 Yeah. 00:26:06.415 --> 00:26:09.055 And, just, you know, pray for your ministry. 00:26:09.055 --> 00:26:10.495 It's a tremendous ministry. 00:26:10.495 --> 00:26:16.330 And and, you know, please pray for the success, continued success of Divine Mercy University that we find out. 00:26:16.570 --> 00:26:17.210 Do all the time. 00:26:17.210 --> 00:26:17.710 Yeah. 00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:21.550 More students and more, graduates who can follow in your footsteps. 00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:22.570 Yeah. 00:26:22.570 --> 00:26:23.630 That would be great. 00:26:24.505 --> 00:26:24.905 Okay. 00:26:24.905 --> 00:26:25.945 Thank you very much. 00:26:25.945 --> 00:26:26.505 Thank you. 00:26:26.505 --> 00:26:27.485 Thank you, George. 00:26:27.785 --> 00:26:29.165 Thank you, father Charles.