WEBVTT 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:32.550 So I'm father Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University, and we're blessed to be joined here today with bishop Keith Cholinski, who is auxiliary bishop, in the archdiocese of Philadelphia and, a graduate from our master's in clinical psychology program way back in what year was it, Bishop? 00:00:32.550 --> 00:00:33.370 2014. 00:00:33.590 --> 00:00:34.410 2014. 00:00:35.990 --> 00:00:38.650 And in between, he worked, at the seminary. 00:00:39.030 --> 00:00:43.850 Well, actually became he taught at the seminary and then, became rector. 00:00:44.645 --> 00:00:46.405 So tell us a little bit about those experience. 00:00:46.405 --> 00:00:54.745 Like, well, first, what what got you interested in psychology and what got you interested in in studying at at IPS at the time? 00:00:54.965 --> 00:01:01.560 Well, actually, the reason I went to, into the field was because my bishop told me to. 00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:05.460 It was, I I always had a natural interest in it. 00:01:05.460 --> 00:01:10.200 I was always, drawn toward the human aspect of formation even as a seminary. 00:01:11.565 --> 00:01:19.085 And I I've always enjoyed, I've been parish ministry counseling people and, you know, trying to help them, as as I could. 00:01:19.085 --> 00:01:29.000 But, it really was an act of the holy spirit when the bishop, the clergy office, my diocese called me and they basically said they need a priest to to go into this field. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:33.820 And and so I was asked and, so that's that's how that started. 00:01:33.880 --> 00:01:34.200 Okay. 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:34.700 Yeah. 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:36.760 And I guess you just got sent to IPL. 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:39.065 You really that was just the, your only choice? 00:01:39.065 --> 00:01:39.745 Or Yeah. 00:01:39.745 --> 00:01:40.545 Well, no. 00:01:40.545 --> 00:01:42.145 Actually, I have to tell you. 00:01:42.145 --> 00:01:52.485 I, I when I left the the clergy office, I came back, and I the they told me they didn't know where they were gonna send me to study. 00:01:52.820 --> 00:01:54.500 And so I went back to my office. 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:59.640 I said a prayer of the holy spirit, and I Googled Catholic Graduate School of Psychology. 00:01:59.940 --> 00:02:00.440 Mhmm. 00:02:00.580 --> 00:02:03.060 And IPS just popped up. 00:02:03.060 --> 00:02:04.900 And I saw it, oh, look at this. 00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:08.875 And I saw the the faculty, and I saw father Benedict Rochelle's name. 00:02:08.875 --> 00:02:11.215 And I said, oh, this is very intriguing. 00:02:11.275 --> 00:02:13.595 And something kinda struck me when I saw that. 00:02:13.595 --> 00:02:17.035 So I proposed, I looked into it. 00:02:17.035 --> 00:02:21.830 I I called the admissions, director, and it kinda was just went from there. 00:02:21.890 --> 00:02:26.770 And then and so sounds like you're you put the degree to good work. 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:28.870 I mean, you first you taught in the seminary. 00:02:29.170 --> 00:02:31.490 Oh, I have different levels of using yeah. 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:31.650 No. 00:02:31.650 --> 00:02:36.885 I mean and and I share that story because I truly I I truly believe the Lord led me to IPS. 00:02:37.025 --> 00:03:03.405 It's it's truly and my experience there, really just it it was so refreshing to study psychology within a solid Catholic anthropology because it just gave me, every foundation that I need to to understand the field and the fullness, of the per human person as we scientifically study these different aspects of them. 00:03:03.405 --> 00:03:12.785 And that grounding really helped me to go into seminary formation, which is what I was called to do once I got my master's degree. 00:03:13.085 --> 00:03:13.325 Yeah. 00:03:13.325 --> 00:03:16.610 And, was that a new thing at the seminary? 00:03:16.610 --> 00:03:22.230 Or because I it's it's great that, we're teaching in the seminary about psychology. 00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:27.730 And, I guess, seminary need to learn it, but they also need to work on themselves as well. 00:03:27.730 --> 00:03:28.230 Right? 00:03:28.765 --> 00:03:30.305 At only the cost of the formation. 00:03:30.525 --> 00:03:31.025 Absolutely. 00:03:32.045 --> 00:03:53.810 Especially in this time, human formation is it's the most difficult aspect of seminary formation to define, but it's it's really the most fundamental because you're the the the he the person is the it's incarnation of our faith, and it's the person is the conduit to to Christ's presence in the world. 00:03:53.810 --> 00:04:02.685 So he has to he or she, you know, has to function, well and real are called to flourish, in their own humanity. 00:04:03.305 --> 00:04:03.625 You know? 00:04:03.625 --> 00:04:04.125 Yeah. 00:04:04.745 --> 00:04:10.985 And then, so talk a little bit about so you you teach the seminar. 00:04:10.985 --> 00:04:20.930 You taught the seminar past, like, skills for their past work, and also how to grow in their own human virtues and so forth. 00:04:21.150 --> 00:04:21.630 Absolutely. 00:04:21.630 --> 00:04:37.535 I I I was both I was overseeing the counseling services for the guys and was really trying to promote, you know, being attentive to one's own mental health and and not being afraid to speaking to a counselor. 00:04:37.595 --> 00:04:44.280 You know, I was really trying to get rid of the whole taboo of of seeing someone, to get rid of that fear. 00:04:45.140 --> 00:04:56.765 But I also was teaching a couple of courses on, how a priest can be an an agent of healing and help people in the parish in different ministry settings, Nick. 00:04:57.265 --> 00:05:02.205 In, the record, was that another out of the blue coffin? 00:05:02.265 --> 00:05:02.765 Yes. 00:05:02.825 --> 00:05:04.125 God is full of surprises. 00:05:04.425 --> 00:05:05.005 You know? 00:05:05.065 --> 00:05:08.680 This whole journey, to to follow the lord. 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.280 You never know where he's gonna take you. 00:05:10.280 --> 00:05:10.940 You know? 00:05:11.880 --> 00:05:12.120 Yeah. 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:25.465 So I became rector, and and I really, grateful for that opportunity because it gave me a broader forum to really, help emphasize the importance of of human formation and mental health and and so forth. 00:05:25.465 --> 00:05:28.525 So I felt like I was doing it on a on a broader level. 00:05:28.825 --> 00:05:31.145 And I and what do you what do you see in the seminary? 00:05:31.145 --> 00:05:34.920 Like, what are some of the biggest challenges that they face these days? 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:45.975 You know, the younger generation, obviously, like, social media is something they've grown up with, something that I think I'm grateful I did not grow up with, and you you might feel the same way. 00:05:46.135 --> 00:05:46.455 Yeah. 00:05:46.455 --> 00:05:51.195 But I I I don't what are some of the things big big biggest challenges right now that seminaries are facing? 00:05:51.655 --> 00:05:54.475 Because, you know, the spirit can be willing, but the flesh is weak. 00:05:55.175 --> 00:06:03.690 And, you know, seminarians and priests who were just caught out of the normal families, the normal Catholic world. 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:04.150 Yep. 00:06:04.150 --> 00:06:04.470 Yep. 00:06:04.470 --> 00:06:05.750 There there's no magic wand. 00:06:05.750 --> 00:06:05.990 Right? 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:09.050 So what what do you see are some of the big bigger challenges? 00:06:09.110 --> 00:06:09.510 Yeah. 00:06:09.510 --> 00:06:10.310 I agree with you. 00:06:10.310 --> 00:06:20.035 The the influence of social media, I think we're still unpacking how, influential it is in a child's development and in adolescence development. 00:06:20.255 --> 00:06:24.995 And and I usually see it in negative ways, especially if it's unmonitored. 00:06:26.095 --> 00:06:39.820 You know, it's I think there's an increased level of anxiety, depression, particularly if, if they, tend to isolate themselves and just spend so much time on the Internet. 00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:47.365 I could the whole COVID time really impacted, I think, their the lack of socialization and so forth. 00:06:47.365 --> 00:06:51.065 So so I've seen increased levels of anxiety and depression. 00:06:52.805 --> 00:07:05.210 I mean, these are these are young men, you know, who who are a one year gung ho for the Lord and faithful to what the the church is teachings, and we're seeing that really across the board in some areas, which is a very positive thing. 00:07:05.210 --> 00:07:11.050 But it's really sad to hear, you know, with that, there's still this anxiety, depression, things like that. 00:07:11.050 --> 00:07:11.450 Yep. 00:07:11.450 --> 00:07:11.950 Yep. 00:07:12.285 --> 00:07:12.525 Yeah. 00:07:12.525 --> 00:07:22.285 It's, a lot of uncertainty out there, and I think a lot of young people are, like, just grasping, looking for something solid to hold on to. 00:07:22.285 --> 00:07:27.640 And and and thanks be to god, many do find it that rock, in the church. 00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:28.120 You know? 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:28.620 Yeah. 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:35.560 But it's but it doesn't it doesn't, take away their human frailty and the the other struggles that they might have. 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:35.880 You know? 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:36.380 Sure. 00:07:37.985 --> 00:07:44.485 So then one day, I guess, you you lost a bet or, got knocked on your door again and said, well, we're gonna make you a bishop. 00:07:44.945 --> 00:07:55.810 So I kinda send congratulations and condolences at the time because I father Benedict Rochelle used to tell us you know what the definition of a bishop is, was a priest with bad luck. 00:07:56.510 --> 00:07:57.790 So what did you do? 00:07:57.790 --> 00:08:01.490 I mean, well, I I'm sure that was a big surprise. 00:08:01.710 --> 00:08:02.590 It sure was. 00:08:02.590 --> 00:08:03.090 Yeah. 00:08:03.230 --> 00:08:08.015 I was, I was just at a meeting with one of my colleagues at the seminary. 00:08:08.075 --> 00:08:13.595 He went down to my office, was clearing the desk for the day, and, all of a sudden, you see the phone ring. 00:08:13.595 --> 00:08:19.295 And and they we're always warned, be careful if your phone is calling and it has a 202 number. 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:28.950 And lo and behold, there was a the 202, area code, and then and, all of a sudden, I was talking to the papal nuncio. 00:08:29.730 --> 00:08:30.930 I get those all the time. 00:08:30.930 --> 00:08:31.425 But yeah. 00:08:31.825 --> 00:08:32.945 That was not as scary. 00:08:32.945 --> 00:08:34.225 That was the nuncio, is it? 00:08:34.225 --> 00:08:34.465 Yeah. 00:08:34.465 --> 00:08:35.505 The nuncio call. 00:08:35.505 --> 00:08:35.985 Yeah. 00:08:35.985 --> 00:08:36.485 Yep. 00:08:37.265 --> 00:08:38.785 Well, you were surprised. 00:08:38.785 --> 00:08:50.240 It doesn't honestly, it doesn't surprise me because you're such a humble, holy man, And, you know, it's it's a real blessing for the church to have you in this new role. 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:59.025 What if you comment you know, one of the things we wanna try and do is with our, students and graduates. 00:08:59.245 --> 00:09:07.425 How can, like, lay mental health professionals work with priests and spiritual directions and seminarians? 00:09:07.645 --> 00:09:11.725 Because I we have a lot of people who really would like to help in some way. 00:09:11.725 --> 00:09:24.490 And, any any any advice or tips for, how we can foster better cooperation between the clergy and the mental health community? 00:09:25.285 --> 00:09:25.605 Yeah. 00:09:25.605 --> 00:09:32.645 I mean, I'd like to first start by saying that your the DMU is is truly an act of God in the world. 00:09:32.645 --> 00:09:34.805 The church needs you. 00:09:34.805 --> 00:09:46.660 The church needs, qualified, faith filled, mental health clinicians as part of her saving mission to bring health and healing, into the world. 00:09:46.660 --> 00:10:11.090 And I I I have just based on my experience when I was at then in IPS, and, and seeing what's happened over the last ten years, there, is so so much potential, of with collaboration with dioceses, and mental health professionals with vocations offices, and even just parish based ministries. 00:10:11.790 --> 00:10:23.705 I I I just, I think there's so much potential, and I think there's a there's a growing, openness and interest from the part of the clergy. 00:10:25.285 --> 00:10:28.085 It's very different than it was twenty or thirty years ago. 00:10:28.085 --> 00:10:36.770 You know, I think there's I I'm I'm seeing even very courageous witnesses of bishops who are willing to, you know, share their own personal struggles saying, hey. 00:10:36.770 --> 00:10:39.810 We're, you know, we're all human beings, and we all you know? 00:10:39.810 --> 00:10:47.510 So I I think with that increased openness, among clergy, there's just gonna be an increase of demand. 00:10:47.915 --> 00:10:52.895 So we would truly need good faith filled, clinicians. 00:10:53.435 --> 00:10:56.315 I mean, a a really good initiative is going on. 00:10:56.315 --> 00:11:11.480 The, United States Bishops Conference started a mental health initiative last fall, and we've actually helped a little bit with bishop Baron on a with a podcast and, speaking in one of their committees. 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.400 But, you know, you mentioned, but I think a lot of good fruits. 00:11:15.400 --> 00:11:32.510 One, bishop Conley recently, bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska wrote a beautiful letter on mental health, going through his own personal struggle, which I think I found very interesting from the mental health perspective, but it was very it almost like spiritual reading toward the end. 00:11:33.210 --> 00:11:35.630 I would highly recommend everyone to read that. 00:11:36.730 --> 00:11:42.910 We have, an alumnus or actually graduate this year from the doctoral program was hired by the Diocese of South Bend. 00:11:43.395 --> 00:11:50.195 To work in Catholic charities, and I think she's going to start a mental health, outreach to parishes there in South Bend. 00:11:50.195 --> 00:11:51.795 So many different things. 00:11:51.795 --> 00:11:59.390 We're working on a, diocese initiative because every diocese is a little bit different, different needs, different resources. 00:12:00.330 --> 00:12:01.610 There's different ways you can do it. 00:12:01.610 --> 00:12:06.750 You can have maybe work with Catholic charities or have alumni start their own private practice. 00:12:07.290 --> 00:12:16.055 And, you know, some some places they actually have graduates or or counselors, working actually in the parish. 00:12:16.055 --> 00:12:18.235 So there's many different ways we can do this. 00:12:18.695 --> 00:12:21.015 But, yeah, it it certainly is. 00:12:21.015 --> 00:12:21.835 It's a crisis. 00:12:21.895 --> 00:12:31.100 And I was thinking with the bishops, and maybe you can choose not to answer this question as a but, I think the, you know, the Bishop Conference has this initiative. 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:38.520 And I think it's great that they're they're building awareness, and we're kinda, like, throwing out the, idea. 00:12:38.520 --> 00:12:38.920 Like, hey. 00:12:38.920 --> 00:12:48.755 We need to be doing something and trying to figure out ways to better serve that mental health needs, in the parish level and the diocesan level and throughout communities. 00:12:50.175 --> 00:12:52.175 But we can't wait for the bishops to do it. 00:12:52.175 --> 00:12:55.850 I think that I think that's their they're not gonna be able to execute on all this. 00:12:55.850 --> 00:12:57.550 It just doesn't happen that way. 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:01.050 And, like, sometimes too many peep too many of us look to the well, what's the bishop? 00:13:01.050 --> 00:13:02.110 But no. 00:13:02.170 --> 00:13:03.450 It it's up to us. 00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:14.205 And and I think here at DMU, we have so many students who have that attitude, and I just wanna encourage them, you know, don't don't wait for the pastor. 00:13:14.205 --> 00:13:16.545 Don't wait for the bishop because they're very busy. 00:13:16.605 --> 00:13:21.260 They got many things going on, but that doesn't mean it's not very important to them. 00:13:21.260 --> 00:13:23.820 And I guess I think it's a beauty of this initiative they are doing. 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:24.400 You know? 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:26.900 They don't seem to be trying to do too much with this Yeah. 00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:30.460 But kinda encouraging people to get involved. 00:13:30.460 --> 00:13:30.795 Yep. 00:13:30.875 --> 00:13:31.195 Yeah. 00:13:31.195 --> 00:13:31.995 I agree with that. 00:13:31.995 --> 00:13:53.700 And I think I think this, again, I'm new to the conference, but but I what I see in this initiative is bringing awareness among, the hierarchy and, and I I think fostering a greater openness to receiving help from laypeople to come up, step forward, propose, you know, different, different ways of being of service to the church. 00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:56.400 In the seminarians, encourage them to come forward. 00:13:56.400 --> 00:13:57.520 I think it's it's a general. 00:13:57.520 --> 00:13:57.680 Right? 00:13:57.680 --> 00:13:58.480 There's a stigma. 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:00.160 People are afraid to talk about it. 00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:00.525 Yep. 00:14:00.605 --> 00:14:00.845 Yeah. 00:14:00.845 --> 00:14:09.725 Afraid to get help or, they often could be afraid to if there's, someone in their family who's suffering, you know, they don't wanna tell anybody. 00:14:09.725 --> 00:14:10.125 You know? 00:14:10.125 --> 00:14:18.660 If, someone's rushed to the hospital with a heart attack or they had cancer, horrible situation, but we ask for prayers. 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:19.200 Yep. 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:20.400 And word gets around. 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:29.760 But when someone's struggling with, you know, depression or, you know, my loved one tried to commit suicide, like, we don't want anybody to know about it. 00:14:29.760 --> 00:14:29.920 Yeah. 00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:30.735 So Yeah. 00:14:30.815 --> 00:14:36.735 Trying to create ways pathways for people to bring forward their, Excellent. 00:14:36.815 --> 00:14:38.015 Difficulties for a way. 00:14:38.015 --> 00:14:38.255 Yeah. 00:14:38.255 --> 00:14:38.495 You know? 00:14:38.495 --> 00:14:50.570 And I think, and in a way, I think for a lot of faithful Catholics, they're they're afraid to go to mental health professional not knowing, you know, are are they gonna give me counsel that would go against my faith? 00:14:50.570 --> 00:14:51.050 You know? 00:14:51.050 --> 00:15:02.835 That's why what you're doing at DMU is so important because you're you're creating this whole new generation of of therapists who will actually only help people. 00:15:02.975 --> 00:15:03.635 You know? 00:15:03.775 --> 00:15:04.435 You know? 00:15:04.495 --> 00:15:05.055 Okay, best. 00:15:05.055 --> 00:15:10.515 Well, hopefully, we'll be able to continue hope we can help more up in the Philadelphia, diocese. 00:15:10.575 --> 00:15:12.735 And, thank you so much for your time. 00:15:12.735 --> 00:15:17.640 You've been more than generous to come with us, and I didn't spend time with us here this afternoon. 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:18.200 Absolutely. 00:15:18.260 --> 00:15:19.140 Thank you, father. 00:15:19.140 --> 00:15:20.340 Really appreciate it, father. 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:21.080 You too.