Welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast.
My name is Thomas Kronquist, and I'm your host today.
Our guest is again, doctor Helena Oriana, the director of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences Clinic here at Divine Mercy University.
And today, we will talk about good reasons to try therapy.
Doctor Oriana, how are you today?
I'm doing well.
Thanks for having me.
For those who missed our first podcast together, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to, to be the director of the clinic here at Divine Mercy University?
So I'm a graduate of, DMU's doctoral program at the Institute of Psychological Sciences.
And I came back to work here, because of my passion for training students, training future clinicians.
So I kind of still work as a generalist psychologist.
And I spend most of my time here at our clinic where our students are working with, patients in the community, and I oversee their work and oversee their training.
Fantastic.
Well, today, we're gonna talk about good reasons to seek out therapy.
We touched on this in our earlier podcast, but can you talk about some of the important reasons someone should seek help, seek therapy, seek, answers to questions they might have about the challenging circumstances they face?
I think that ultimately, when it's on your mind, when you start wondering if therapy might be something that could help you, or you're in that domain, really a good time to reach out and check-in.
And you don't have to solve that on your own.
You can talk with a clinician, you can talk with somebody to see like, hey, this is why I'm considering it.
This is why I think I might need it.
This is why I'm confused.
And you can have that conversation with someone else to see what how therapy could help you.
And that could be a clinician, but that could also just be a trusted friend.
Like, you know how I am.
You know what I've been going through lately.
What do you think?
My general kind of rule of thumb is if you find yourself thinking about it, if you find yourself wondering, it's worth reaching out, it's worth looking for help.
So that you can see like, maybe it's just a short term talking with someone working a few things out.
And maybe it's actually what you've been needing for a long time and just didn't know it could be a resource to you.
I think, an important dimension to this is, the myths that are associated with seeking mental health, assistance or or therapy.
Can you talk about some of those myths and how they are myths and they really don't apply to, for all of us?
Yeah.
There are a number of myths about therapy.
So I'm gonna try and limit myself.
But one of the biggest ones that I hear is it's not that bad.
Or I don't think it's depression, or I don't think I'm I just think it's stress.
I don't think it's anxiety.
So when you have someone who really doesn't think it's bad enough for therapy, And and the therapy isn't only for those who are really acutely suffering.
It's absolutely for those who are really acutely suffering.
But even if you've been struggling for some time, if you're one of the things that I think people don't realize is if you feel very stuck in your life, do you feel stuck at work?
Do you feel stuck in the same relationship patterns?
Do you feel stuck in the same emotions?
Do you find yourself feeling ashamed over and over anxious, worried about the same things?
Does your mind drift back to the same places over and over, You don't feel like you can make much headway on this.
That's when therapy can be helpful to you.
It doesn't have to be at your worst.
It can come in much sooner than that.
And it can even come in to help you be better.
So one of the misses, it's not bad enough.
Somebody else out there has it worse is another manifestation of that.
So I shouldn't take away their therapy spot or there's somebody who needs it more.
That's not true.
If you're suffering, if you're stuck, therapy can help.
It's what it's here for.
Another kind of myth is that therapy won't help.
Kind of a version that I hear of that one is, it's just me complaining.
I think if you've been in therapy, my hope is that you realize how untrue this is, that therapy can be very helpful.
In fact, research has consistently shown that people who are in therapy report being 80% better than those who've never gone to therapy.
And that's, that's a big difference.
And those who've been in therapy, you it's hard work.
It's not easy.
It's not whining and complaining.
It's hard work.
And hard work pays off.
That's how it helps.
There are two kind of fun ones or funnier ones that I hear a lot about therapy.
One is they're just gonna make me talk about my mom, or it's just gonna come back to my family or and maybe those things are on the table.
Early relationships really shape how we make sense of ourselves, how we make sense of our feelings about the world.
But therapy does not always come back to mom, and it can come back to mom in a really positive way.
And mom could be actual mom or different people.
So I think that's kind of one of the comical ones that I actually hear quite a bit and I think really prevents people from coming in if I don't wanna just be there and complain about people in my life.
Therapy isn't like that.
It's artwork, because it's going to be helpful.
Think about it more like physical therapy, like recovering, like building back those muscles, understanding how you've been wounded or hurt hurt or struggling, what's been keeping you stuck, and putting in the hard work to develop new skills, new ways of thinking, new ways of feeling.
And therapy can really help.
You just might have to sort through some of those myths to get there.
As you were talking, I was had images in my mind of what people might think is standard therapy going into a dimly dimly lit room and laying reclining on a couch or a soft a big chair and and, you know, looking at inkblots, but it's probably not it's not that at all.
That's, those are stereotypes that are probably totally inaccurate.
So, I think probably people people have fear of the unknown.
And therapy, I think, is something that there's a lot of a lot of unknown for most of us.
So, what you're saying is it's it's not a it's not a scary or a bad situation.
It's something that can be helpful for, for many of us, for all of us.
Yeah.
What can make it scary is the sense that the therapist will see all that's going on.
I hear that a lot of like, are you reading me?
Are you like, do you know my unconscious?
And for the most part, I don't have that superpower.
I have been trained to like, pay attention and to notice that therapy is actually remarkably collaborative, that you are kind of the expert on you.
You know what goes on in your life.
You know the people in your life, and you work alongside the therapist.
It's a little bit of trial and error.
It's a little bit of like, well, let's think about this.
Let's puzzle this out together.
And you retain power.
Like, you don't just give it over to the clinician who tells you what to do, and you live your life according to what your clinician thinks.
But you work together to find something that fits you, and you never in good therapy, you never lose your power, you actually come to a better understanding of like, what is my control over my life?
How do I, the therapist, you know, another cliche is that we answer questions with questions, which I think is somewhat fair.
But that's because part of your task in therapy is to answer these questions that you have about yourself, and it can't be that the therapist answers them for you.
Far be it for me to tell people, you know, how to decide the big things in their life, But it is my job to help you think through it, help you notice the things that are keeping you stuck there so that you're more free to decide so that you're not deciding from a place of fear.
But you're deciding from a place of kind of like being more aware of what your choices are and aware of what you want.
So your therapist is there really to help you, not to control you in any way.
It's, they're they're they're I guess maybe that's an oversimplification, but there's not a a control aspect to this at all.
You shouldn't be afraid that that's what it's gonna be.
There's not a sense of, like, a a being told what to do.
Mhmm.
It's a deciding together.
And that's kind of how therapy really diff differs from maybe consulting with a medical professional who will be performing surgery or has a really clear sense of like, what this disease is, or what is going on.
It's more of like, well, this is about you and your life and what you're feeling and how do you wanna take this on.
I can tell you some an expert way of understanding this, tools we know that work for that, but then you have to apply it to your life.
And we need to work out, like, how all this science and evidence and strategies actually applies to you.
Another question I have that, maybe going off in a little bit different direction.
Mental health in general, is that something that is static?
Or do our our mental health conditions fluctuate, you know, through life over time?
Condition are they affected by the environment?
Are we we're not necessarily steady state, are we?
As mental health isn't something you have or you don't have.
Have.
It's it's, it, different conditions can affect, your mental health.
Yes?
Yes.
It's so it's such an interesting question.
Right?
What is mental health?
I think in some ways we're unclear about that, unclear about what mental illness is.
And I think that it's the way that we think about it in the field is fairly complex, but it's this idea that mental functioning, when things are going well, pertains to your emotional experiences, your overall ways of thinking, and your ways of engaging in the world.
The way you see yourself, the way you make sense of other people, and also what you do, your behaviors.
And everyone needs to have flexibility within that rate.
When you face stressors in life, they're going to make you feel harder feelings.
They're going to be stressful.
There's nothing wrong with feeling that.
You haven't, like, lost your mental health when you're stressed about something overwhelmed or sad.
But it's about, like, can you acclimate to that?
Can you find new ways of thinking and feeling?
Can you tend to those needs?
And can you adapt as life changes and your sense of self changes, your circumstance changes?
And it's about kind of stress management and having that kind of flexibility to acclimate and to think realistically about yourself and others in the world that you're really free to engage and not stuck in the same feelings or the same behaviors or the same relationship patterns.
So that goes back to what you were saying initially.
If you find yourself stuck as it were in different emotions, behavior patterns, and you feel frustrated and not able to change or move in directions you'd like to move, that's that's one indication we need to ask some maybe somebody for some input, some help, with even therapy.
Yeah.
As a clinician, one of the things that I talk with people about is how do we know when we're done?
You know, it's not something you really think about with therapy, but something we talk about in therapy.
It's like, how would you know, when you're ready to be done with therapy?
It's an important question.
And I've not had somebody answer that my life will be perfect.
Right?
I therapy that's well beyond the scope of what we can do and what I'm capable of as a clinician.
But it's a sense that you get within yourself of that I can handle things, But I understand myself better, that I know how to take on challenges I've learned from my past, I've developed new skills, new ways of thinking, and I feel more prepared to take on life's challenges.
I think that's a really wonderful and rich way of thinking about what it means to feel healthy, as there's a sense of competence, a sense of strategies, and a capacity to say, like, things will be hard, but I feel more prepared to take on that hardship and to understand how to manage the potential storms that are coming in the future and to avoid storms that are unnecessary.
Very interesting.
I've read about and and listened to people speak about how faith someone's personal faith can make them stronger in the face of challenges and make them more adaptive, as you say, to life's challenges.
Is that, is that something you've seen in your practice, your work, the faith is, is a can be an important component to somebody's mental health?
Absolutely.
I think that research in the field is very clear on this.
Those with spiritual and, faith based resources tend to do better.
It's a huge, which is just such a beautiful thing to see, right?
That faith and faith communities help sustain the person, help you have meaning, help you help you make sense of suffering, help you not to feel alone.
This is just on the psychological level.
Right?
I can't speak to, like, what it spiritually does to be connected with your creator, to have a prayer life.
But on a psychological level, it gives people a sense of accompaniment.
It gives them a sense of meaning that makes suffering less overwhelming and more, an opportunity for growth, the greater connection in the Christian worldview.
That's absolutely true, right?
Suffering unites us to Christ.
It becomes an opportunity for intimacy rather than isolation and rejection.
And what a tremendous resource that is psychologically in the moments of suffering.
So faith is kind of on a psych just on a flattened psychological level, demonstrated over and over again to be a a wealth of a resource to people's psychological functioning.
I've also read that, during this pandemic, which, you know, we've talked about before that the challenges and the stress that, it's causing, that people of faith are responding much better, generally speaking, than those who might not share the same the same the same faith or, understanding of, of faith.
Have you have you seen that too regarding the, the pandemic?
Yeah.
I'd say so.
I I think it fluctuates.
Right?
Because one of the things that I see in faith communities that perhaps we haven't kind of noted is what it's been like to be physically cut off from your faith and faith traditions and how that has a real spiritual, but also psychological impact.
So I think that piece is certainly there.
But going to kind of what you were reflecting on that there's a trend to say that people with faith practices and faith communities are doing better is a sense of what what a lot of us are wrestling with with the pandemic is how much it shifted our world view, shifted our sense of our you know, politically, it's had huge ramifications, but also, like, what's under our control.
And those are big things to kind of wrestle with, not just on a like theoretical level, but on an emotional level, on a lived level.
And a faith system gives you a way to make sense of that, as opposed to someone who doesn't have that who's trying to take all of that on, while also building a framework to understand the impact of this.
Right?
So think about it this way, someone with faith is already kind of has a sense that they're not in control, but somebody else is.
A loving, caring, father is in control.
And there's already kind of an acceptance and a wrestling inside with the idea that I don't have control.
That's different from somebody who hasn't wrestled with that.
I wanna touch on some of the, mood disorders that can be effectively treated in therapy.
Are there particular, mood disorders maybe that are more prevalent nowadays that can be effectively treated, and what are they?
I would just say kind of broadly, we know that therapy is effective for a variety of disorders and different disorders.
Research has demonstrated that different types of therapy work better than others.
But what we know is that therapy and even therapy in combination with medication helps.
So the second part of your question of what is kind of coming up in people and does therapy help with that?
Therapy is really helpful with stress and chronic stress and life adjustment issues.
But also a lot of what we're seeing is a rise in depression, a rise in anxiety, and a rise in substance use, also a rise in anger management and meaninglessness.
And therapy can help someone address all of those.
And really, it's just kind of your talk therapy, working with a therapist to understand what exactly is going on inside, and what strategies do they know of and ways of working on those difficulties are they familiar with and how can that help you.
How can therapy help people with personal relationships?
I think personal relationships are very important.
And I as you were speaking, I was thinking that, that in personal relationships, there's almost a therapeutic dimension in good in good, in good relationships with with a spouse, with family members, children.
Those can be opportunities for growth and learning and sharing and all things that I would say contribute to good mental health.
But let's say those relationships are are straining because of, external conditions, whatever they might be.
How can therapy help with those?
You know, for example, with help couples or families, friends, and even in in professional environments.
Yeah.
Couple thoughts.
The first thing that kind of strikes strikes me is that therapy is a relationship, and you're in dialogue with another person.
And one of the ways that therapy can help is you notice what happens between you and the therapist, And that can teach you about what happens in other relationships.
But in therapy, you can be very transparent about it and say like, well, I'm nervous about this, or I think you're judging me.
And then and that makes me really anxious.
Like, okay, that's really important.
I wonder if this fear comes up in other domains.
So you kind of work things out in this relationship to help you understand others outside of it.
Another way of thinking about it is what we notice in therapy and what you attend to are the beliefs that we have about ourselves, the things that we've learned from past relationships that shape the way we think about ourselves, the way we think about other people, and how we think relationships work.
And what you do in therapy is you start to kind of mine for those and identify what they are, and then test different hypothesis like, is that true?
What are the exceptions?
What are more helpful and realistic ways to think about yourself to think about other people?
What are new ways of interacting that you didn't know or you haven't tried yet that would allow you to reduce the conflict in your life, but also engage more deeply, feel more connected with somebody else?
We touched on this before.
You talked about this a little bit before about life changes, circumstances changing, different challenges coming and going.
How does therapy help someone navigate those changes?
Can you kinda sum that up?
I touched that a number of times, but sum that up because life is just full of changes, unexpected things happening.
How does therapy help with those?
One of the things that we've known kind of in the field is that changes have a real psychological toll.
And that's true for everybody.
Like some of the most stressful times in people's lives are going to college, huge change, buying a house for the first time, huge change, getting married.
And and some of those the ones that I listed, like, those are positive changes.
Right?
But that comes with a psychological tool, like you're leaving an old life and creating a new life.
And what therapy does is it can help you understand what is going on inside of me that's making this hard, and what are the new things that I'll need in this new stage of life, or what are the things that I'm breathing about what I'm leaving behind that are making it hard to feel more comfortable here, to feel engaged in this adjustment period.
And what what we found kind of is that people take time to adjust.
And we kind of know this on an anecdotal level, but sometimes in it when we're in it, it's hard to feel like what we're feeling is normal, or it, it'll just go away with time.
And what we actually know is that some people can, some people adjust better than others, but also some people adjust better at certain seasons in their life than they do at other seasons in their life.
And so what therapy can do is just help you access those resources, help you identify the things that are keeping you stuck or making this hard, and identifying new ways of engaging and understanding yourself and self and the circumstances to help that transition go more smoothly.
One of the big changes I think people are facing nowadays is loss of a loved one.
Could be as a result of the pandemic or just, for other reasons.
How can therapy help someone who's grieving?
And and and there are I think a lot of people out there, they're they're suffering and they're grieving.
How can therapy help there?
Grief is such a tremendously painful experience.
And I think that unlike, well, maybe I should put it this way.
One is the ways that we think about grieving when we've grieved in the past is it's a very individual and yet shared experience, you share the loss with others, you have the funeral, and you see that others are also impacted by this loss.
And you're able to kind of breathe with others.
And one thing that's become particularly complicated in the pandemic is even if you know that a loved one may die, you don't have access to the ways to navigate that process that you had pre pandemic, right?
So you envision that, like, at some point, my parents will pass away.
And that's a lot that's very frightening and upsetting.
But then the the narrative changes, right, because now you can't go be with them.
Now you don't know if you'll have the funeral, and that has a real impact.
Part of what we do when we manage stress is we anticipate it, and we build out a plan.
And what's happened now is that that's not been possible.
You don't even know, like, can you get there?
Can you be with your siblings as you navigate this process?
How can you express your love through a screen rather than through a squeeze of a hand?
And therapy allows you to have a place to kind of unpack that and understand how your expectations differed.
And some people don't need therapy.
Some people are able to work this out with other people.
But one of the things that I think we underestimate about the benefits of therapy is how outside of the situation the therapist is.
That when we're grieving and we know that the person we're close to is also grieving, it can be hard to navigate that tension of how do we grieve together?
How do I support you and get what I need?
And in therapy, you have someone that you don't have to support.
You have someone who's kind of outside of it, but who understands the grieving process more broadly, And that can allow a greater freedom of exploration and attending that, in my opinion, should allow you to go back to the loved ones that you're grieving with and grieve together in a in a more helpful way, in a way that really helps you process and be connected.
So therapy shouldn't just be, like, out here isolated working on this on my own, but it should allow you to kind of return and feel like you are able to say goodbye, to navigate the emotions and fears that are coming up, but also to support and be supported more by the loved ones who are sharing the loss with you.
If, somebody has, would like to get therapy or even has questions about therapy, what steps should they take?
It's a great question.
The first step is to try and find a therapist in your area.
You can do that through an Internet search, like, through a website called psychologytoday.com.
You can also do it by calling your insurance provider and asking them for a list of therapists that fall under your insurance or that they recommend, and then you'll call them.
So here at the IPS center, you can give us a call, and we'll talk to you and do a phone screening where we tell you a little bit about the center, what it looks like to receive care here, the services that we're offering, and you would share a little bit about what's bringing you to therapy, what your concerns are, and we'll decide together if we're a good fit.
So for example, at the center right now, we're offering telehealth sessions for adults, and it's individual therapy.
And so we'll tell you a little bit about what that looks like.
And then you can tell us a little bit about what you're looking for.
And we'll decide together if we're a good fit.
What I think will happen soon is even at the IPS Center, we're probably going to open to a hybrid model.
So remote and in person options where you can kind of decide, you know, do I feel like I wanna meet in person, or do I wanna meet remotely with somebody to to do my therapy?
You mentioned, people from Virginia contacting you here at the clinic.
With TeleMed today, can people outside the state, contact the clinic and get, answers to their questions or even get therapy?
It's a great question.
I think it's been very confusing for people because even those laws have shifted, especially in The United States over the course of COVID.
By and large, clinicians are only allowed to work with people within the state that they're licensed.
So I'm licensed in Virginia, which means only Virginia has granted me permission and verified my credentials that I can offer therapy to Virginia residents.
So it doesn't make kind of sense on a practical level.
You could be in California, let's say, and there's a clinician in Virginia you wanted to work with.
But legally speaking, you're in California.
And so you only someone approved by the psychology board of California can work with you.
So you have to kind of understand.
Now a clinician could be, I could be licensed in Virginia and California, in which case I can work with somebody in California.
But our regulations in The United States say that you have to work by someone licensed in the state where you, the client, are located.
If somebody were to were to call from out of state, could you make a referral or a recommendation to somebody you know in in their state, that would be, good for them, maybe a good fit for them?
We certainly try, and we definitely get recommendations for that.
We aren't we don't have a huge database of people that we know in the broader United States.
But if we do get a request for that, we do try and help someone orient at least to how to find a therapist near them.
Sometimes we get requests for to see if there's a DMU alum working in the area, and there's actually a place on our website.
I think it's under the alumni tab where you can find and search for a DMU alum and see where we're working all across The United States.
And that's actually where we direct people who ask us about it.
We direct them back to that web page.
You can go to our website, divinemercy.edu.
And you're saying that's where they would find that information?
Yeah.
It's under the alumni tab.
Can you share with us the, website address for this for the center and, your phone number?
Absolutely.
Our website is ipscenter.org, and our phone number is (703) 418-2111.
Thank you so much.
Well, this has been another informative, very interesting, discussion, and I hope it, it helps people out there who have listened to it.
And, doctor Orianna, I'd like to thank you so much for all you do for those in need.
And I thank you for being part of our podcast, and I look forward to talking with you again very soon.
Have a wonderful day.
Thanks for having me.