WEBVTT 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.580 Welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast. 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.620 My name is Thomas Kronquist, and I'm your host today. 00:00:14.135 --> 00:00:22.155 Our guest is again, doctor Helena Oriana, the director of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences Clinic here at Divine Mercy University. 00:00:22.535 --> 00:00:25.995 And today, we will talk about good reasons to try therapy. 00:00:26.455 --> 00:00:28.315 Doctor Oriana, how are you today? 00:00:28.690 --> 00:00:29.490 I'm doing well. 00:00:29.490 --> 00:00:30.790 Thanks for having me. 00:00:30.850 --> 00:00:40.230 For those who missed our first podcast together, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to, to be the director of the clinic here at Divine Mercy University? 00:00:41.515 --> 00:00:47.215 So I'm a graduate of, DMU's doctoral program at the Institute of Psychological Sciences. 00:00:47.755 --> 00:00:54.015 And I came back to work here, because of my passion for training students, training future clinicians. 00:00:55.100 --> 00:00:58.160 So I kind of still work as a generalist psychologist. 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:08.560 And I spend most of my time here at our clinic where our students are working with, patients in the community, and I oversee their work and oversee their training. 00:01:08.860 --> 00:01:09.360 Fantastic. 00:01:10.035 --> 00:01:13.555 Well, today, we're gonna talk about good reasons to seek out therapy. 00:01:13.555 --> 00:01:28.620 We touched on this in our earlier podcast, but can you talk about some of the important reasons someone should seek help, seek therapy, seek, answers to questions they might have about the challenging circumstances they face? 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:40.815 I think that ultimately, when it's on your mind, when you start wondering if therapy might be something that could help you, or you're in that domain, really a good time to reach out and check-in. 00:01:40.815 --> 00:01:42.915 And you don't have to solve that on your own. 00:01:42.975 --> 00:01:48.175 You can talk with a clinician, you can talk with somebody to see like, hey, this is why I'm considering it. 00:01:48.175 --> 00:01:50.735 This is why I think I might need it. 00:01:50.735 --> 00:01:51.955 This is why I'm confused. 00:01:52.255 --> 00:01:59.060 And you can have that conversation with someone else to see what how therapy could help you. 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:01.700 And that could be a clinician, but that could also just be a trusted friend. 00:02:01.700 --> 00:02:02.820 Like, you know how I am. 00:02:02.820 --> 00:02:04.340 You know what I've been going through lately. 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:05.240 What do you think? 00:02:05.860 --> 00:02:15.315 My general kind of rule of thumb is if you find yourself thinking about it, if you find yourself wondering, it's worth reaching out, it's worth looking for help. 00:02:15.535 --> 00:02:21.235 So that you can see like, maybe it's just a short term talking with someone working a few things out. 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:26.760 And maybe it's actually what you've been needing for a long time and just didn't know it could be a resource to you. 00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:36.860 I think, an important dimension to this is, the myths that are associated with seeking mental health, assistance or or therapy. 00:02:37.695 --> 00:02:45.075 Can you talk about some of those myths and how they are myths and they really don't apply to, for all of us? 00:02:45.855 --> 00:02:46.355 Yeah. 00:02:46.415 --> 00:02:48.895 There are a number of myths about therapy. 00:02:48.895 --> 00:02:51.315 So I'm gonna try and limit myself. 00:02:51.375 --> 00:02:55.570 But one of the biggest ones that I hear is it's not that bad. 00:02:56.190 --> 00:03:00.430 Or I don't think it's depression, or I don't think I'm I just think it's stress. 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:01.650 I don't think it's anxiety. 00:03:01.870 --> 00:03:10.925 So when you have someone who really doesn't think it's bad enough for therapy, And and the therapy isn't only for those who are really acutely suffering. 00:03:10.925 --> 00:03:14.145 It's absolutely for those who are really acutely suffering. 00:03:14.525 --> 00:03:23.660 But even if you've been struggling for some time, if you're one of the things that I think people don't realize is if you feel very stuck in your life, do you feel stuck at work? 00:03:23.660 --> 00:03:26.160 Do you feel stuck in the same relationship patterns? 00:03:26.220 --> 00:03:28.240 Do you feel stuck in the same emotions? 00:03:29.100 --> 00:03:34.300 Do you find yourself feeling ashamed over and over anxious, worried about the same things? 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:41.025 Does your mind drift back to the same places over and over, You don't feel like you can make much headway on this. 00:03:41.165 --> 00:03:43.485 That's when therapy can be helpful to you. 00:03:43.485 --> 00:03:45.745 It doesn't have to be at your worst. 00:03:46.045 --> 00:03:48.445 It can come in much sooner than that. 00:03:48.445 --> 00:03:50.865 And it can even come in to help you be better. 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.420 So one of the misses, it's not bad enough. 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.120 Somebody else out there has it worse is another manifestation of that. 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:03.020 So I shouldn't take away their therapy spot or there's somebody who needs it more. 00:04:03.155 --> 00:04:04.035 That's not true. 00:04:04.035 --> 00:04:07.075 If you're suffering, if you're stuck, therapy can help. 00:04:07.075 --> 00:04:08.535 It's what it's here for. 00:04:09.475 --> 00:04:12.755 Another kind of myth is that therapy won't help. 00:04:12.755 --> 00:04:16.535 Kind of a version that I hear of that one is, it's just me complaining. 00:04:17.570 --> 00:04:24.290 I think if you've been in therapy, my hope is that you realize how untrue this is, that therapy can be very helpful. 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:34.145 In fact, research has consistently shown that people who are in therapy report being 80% better than those who've never gone to therapy. 00:04:35.165 --> 00:04:37.185 And that's, that's a big difference. 00:04:38.525 --> 00:04:41.985 And those who've been in therapy, you it's hard work. 00:04:42.580 --> 00:04:43.940 It's not easy. 00:04:43.940 --> 00:04:45.640 It's not whining and complaining. 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:47.240 It's hard work. 00:04:47.540 --> 00:04:48.980 And hard work pays off. 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:50.120 That's how it helps. 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:55.240 There are two kind of fun ones or funnier ones that I hear a lot about therapy. 00:04:55.695 --> 00:05:04.175 One is they're just gonna make me talk about my mom, or it's just gonna come back to my family or and maybe those things are on the table. 00:05:04.175 --> 00:05:10.195 Early relationships really shape how we make sense of ourselves, how we make sense of our feelings about the world. 00:05:10.520 --> 00:05:15.880 But therapy does not always come back to mom, and it can come back to mom in a really positive way. 00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:18.460 And mom could be actual mom or different people. 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:29.155 So I think that's kind of one of the comical ones that I actually hear quite a bit and I think really prevents people from coming in if I don't wanna just be there and complain about people in my life. 00:05:29.615 --> 00:05:30.975 Therapy isn't like that. 00:05:30.975 --> 00:05:33.935 It's artwork, because it's going to be helpful. 00:05:33.935 --> 00:05:50.410 Think about it more like physical therapy, like recovering, like building back those muscles, understanding how you've been wounded or hurt hurt or struggling, what's been keeping you stuck, and putting in the hard work to develop new skills, new ways of thinking, new ways of feeling. 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:52.810 And therapy can really help. 00:05:53.030 --> 00:05:56.090 You just might have to sort through some of those myths to get there. 00:05:56.525 --> 00:06:14.540 As you were talking, I was had images in my mind of what people might think is standard therapy going into a dimly dimly lit room and laying reclining on a couch or a soft a big chair and and, you know, looking at inkblots, but it's probably not it's not that at all. 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:18.720 That's, those are stereotypes that are probably totally inaccurate. 00:06:18.940 --> 00:06:23.680 So, I think probably people people have fear of the unknown. 00:06:25.175 --> 00:06:30.855 And therapy, I think, is something that there's a lot of a lot of unknown for most of us. 00:06:30.855 --> 00:06:37.630 So, what you're saying is it's it's not a it's not a scary or a bad situation. 00:06:37.630 --> 00:06:41.170 It's something that can be helpful for, for many of us, for all of us. 00:06:41.550 --> 00:06:41.790 Yeah. 00:06:41.790 --> 00:06:46.270 What can make it scary is the sense that the therapist will see all that's going on. 00:06:46.270 --> 00:06:48.270 I hear that a lot of like, are you reading me? 00:06:48.270 --> 00:06:50.925 Are you like, do you know my unconscious? 00:06:50.925 --> 00:06:53.185 And for the most part, I don't have that superpower. 00:06:53.725 --> 00:07:03.810 I have been trained to like, pay attention and to notice that therapy is actually remarkably collaborative, that you are kind of the expert on you. 00:07:03.810 --> 00:07:05.330 You know what goes on in your life. 00:07:05.330 --> 00:07:09.590 You know the people in your life, and you work alongside the therapist. 00:07:09.970 --> 00:07:11.570 It's a little bit of trial and error. 00:07:11.570 --> 00:07:13.970 It's a little bit of like, well, let's think about this. 00:07:13.970 --> 00:07:15.830 Let's puzzle this out together. 00:07:16.295 --> 00:07:18.455 And you retain power. 00:07:18.455 --> 00:07:25.355 Like, you don't just give it over to the clinician who tells you what to do, and you live your life according to what your clinician thinks. 00:07:26.055 --> 00:07:35.900 But you work together to find something that fits you, and you never in good therapy, you never lose your power, you actually come to a better understanding of like, what is my control over my life? 00:07:35.900 --> 00:07:43.360 How do I, the therapist, you know, another cliche is that we answer questions with questions, which I think is somewhat fair. 00:07:44.645 --> 00:07:53.865 But that's because part of your task in therapy is to answer these questions that you have about yourself, and it can't be that the therapist answers them for you. 00:07:54.485 --> 00:08:10.360 Far be it for me to tell people, you know, how to decide the big things in their life, But it is my job to help you think through it, help you notice the things that are keeping you stuck there so that you're more free to decide so that you're not deciding from a place of fear. 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:17.545 But you're deciding from a place of kind of like being more aware of what your choices are and aware of what you want. 00:08:17.925 --> 00:08:22.165 So your therapist is there really to help you, not to control you in any way. 00:08:22.165 --> 00:08:30.920 It's, they're they're they're I guess maybe that's an oversimplification, but there's not a a control aspect to this at all. 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.260 You shouldn't be afraid that that's what it's gonna be. 00:08:33.640 --> 00:08:36.460 There's not a sense of, like, a a being told what to do. 00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:37.080 Mhmm. 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:38.520 It's a deciding together. 00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:50.065 And that's kind of how therapy really diff differs from maybe consulting with a medical professional who will be performing surgery or has a really clear sense of like, what this disease is, or what is going on. 00:08:50.065 --> 00:08:55.825 It's more of like, well, this is about you and your life and what you're feeling and how do you wanna take this on. 00:08:55.825 --> 00:09:04.140 I can tell you some an expert way of understanding this, tools we know that work for that, but then you have to apply it to your life. 00:09:04.140 --> 00:09:10.800 And we need to work out, like, how all this science and evidence and strategies actually applies to you. 00:09:12.685 --> 00:09:17.345 Another question I have that, maybe going off in a little bit different direction. 00:09:17.725 --> 00:09:21.905 Mental health in general, is that something that is static? 00:09:23.885 --> 00:09:31.130 Or do our our mental health conditions fluctuate, you know, through life over time? 00:09:31.910 --> 00:09:35.530 Condition are they affected by the environment? 00:09:35.670 --> 00:09:38.870 Are we we're not necessarily steady state, are we? 00:09:38.870 --> 00:09:41.325 As mental health isn't something you have or you don't have. 00:09:41.325 --> 00:09:41.565 Have. 00:09:41.565 --> 00:09:47.405 It's it's, it, different conditions can affect, your mental health. 00:09:47.405 --> 00:09:47.905 Yes? 00:09:49.005 --> 00:09:49.325 Yes. 00:09:49.325 --> 00:09:52.045 It's so it's such an interesting question. 00:09:52.045 --> 00:09:52.285 Right? 00:09:52.285 --> 00:09:53.565 What is mental health? 00:09:53.565 --> 00:09:57.820 I think in some ways we're unclear about that, unclear about what mental illness is. 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:17.255 And I think that it's the way that we think about it in the field is fairly complex, but it's this idea that mental functioning, when things are going well, pertains to your emotional experiences, your overall ways of thinking, and your ways of engaging in the world. 00:10:17.555 --> 00:10:21.975 The way you see yourself, the way you make sense of other people, and also what you do, your behaviors. 00:10:22.760 --> 00:10:26.280 And everyone needs to have flexibility within that rate. 00:10:26.280 --> 00:10:31.480 When you face stressors in life, they're going to make you feel harder feelings. 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:32.860 They're going to be stressful. 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.520 There's nothing wrong with feeling that. 00:10:34.520 --> 00:10:40.335 You haven't, like, lost your mental health when you're stressed about something overwhelmed or sad. 00:10:41.435 --> 00:10:44.795 But it's about, like, can you acclimate to that? 00:10:44.795 --> 00:10:48.235 Can you find new ways of thinking and feeling? 00:10:48.235 --> 00:10:49.855 Can you tend to those needs? 00:10:50.090 --> 00:10:56.670 And can you adapt as life changes and your sense of self changes, your circumstance changes? 00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:13.555 And it's about kind of stress management and having that kind of flexibility to acclimate and to think realistically about yourself and others in the world that you're really free to engage and not stuck in the same feelings or the same behaviors or the same relationship patterns. 00:11:14.095 --> 00:11:16.335 So that goes back to what you were saying initially. 00:11:16.335 --> 00:11:36.705 If you find yourself stuck as it were in different emotions, behavior patterns, and you feel frustrated and not able to change or move in directions you'd like to move, that's that's one indication we need to ask some maybe somebody for some input, some help, with even therapy. 00:11:37.165 --> 00:11:37.665 Yeah. 00:11:37.725 --> 00:11:42.705 As a clinician, one of the things that I talk with people about is how do we know when we're done? 00:11:43.430 --> 00:11:47.190 You know, it's not something you really think about with therapy, but something we talk about in therapy. 00:11:47.190 --> 00:11:52.010 It's like, how would you know, when you're ready to be done with therapy? 00:11:52.230 --> 00:11:53.610 It's an important question. 00:11:54.070 --> 00:11:57.610 And I've not had somebody answer that my life will be perfect. 00:11:58.785 --> 00:11:59.285 Right? 00:12:00.225 --> 00:12:05.445 I therapy that's well beyond the scope of what we can do and what I'm capable of as a clinician. 00:12:05.665 --> 00:12:26.475 But it's a sense that you get within yourself of that I can handle things, But I understand myself better, that I know how to take on challenges I've learned from my past, I've developed new skills, new ways of thinking, and I feel more prepared to take on life's challenges. 00:12:27.575 --> 00:12:55.795 I think that's a really wonderful and rich way of thinking about what it means to feel healthy, as there's a sense of competence, a sense of strategies, and a capacity to say, like, things will be hard, but I feel more prepared to take on that hardship and to understand how to manage the potential storms that are coming in the future and to avoid storms that are unnecessary. 00:12:57.375 --> 00:12:58.195 Very interesting. 00:12:58.735 --> 00:13:16.450 I've read about and and listened to people speak about how faith someone's personal faith can make them stronger in the face of challenges and make them more adaptive, as you say, to life's challenges. 00:13:16.750 --> 00:13:27.385 Is that, is that something you've seen in your practice, your work, the faith is, is a can be an important component to somebody's mental health? 00:13:27.765 --> 00:13:28.265 Absolutely. 00:13:28.485 --> 00:13:32.185 I think that research in the field is very clear on this. 00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:39.290 Those with spiritual and, faith based resources tend to do better. 00:13:39.290 --> 00:13:42.830 It's a huge, which is just such a beautiful thing to see, right? 00:13:43.050 --> 00:13:52.665 That faith and faith communities help sustain the person, help you have meaning, help you help you make sense of suffering, help you not to feel alone. 00:13:52.725 --> 00:13:54.725 This is just on the psychological level. 00:13:54.725 --> 00:13:55.125 Right? 00:13:55.125 --> 00:14:00.825 I can't speak to, like, what it spiritually does to be connected with your creator, to have a prayer life. 00:14:00.900 --> 00:14:05.160 But on a psychological level, it gives people a sense of accompaniment. 00:14:05.780 --> 00:14:16.925 It gives them a sense of meaning that makes suffering less overwhelming and more, an opportunity for growth, the greater connection in the Christian worldview. 00:14:16.925 --> 00:14:18.465 That's absolutely true, right? 00:14:18.525 --> 00:14:20.205 Suffering unites us to Christ. 00:14:20.205 --> 00:14:24.865 It becomes an opportunity for intimacy rather than isolation and rejection. 00:14:25.325 --> 00:14:30.010 And what a tremendous resource that is psychologically in the moments of suffering. 00:14:30.390 --> 00:14:41.370 So faith is kind of on a psych just on a flattened psychological level, demonstrated over and over again to be a a wealth of a resource to people's psychological functioning. 00:14:42.425 --> 00:15:08.020 I've also read that, during this pandemic, which, you know, we've talked about before that the challenges and the stress that, it's causing, that people of faith are responding much better, generally speaking, than those who might not share the same the same the same faith or, understanding of, of faith. 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.320 Have you have you seen that too regarding the, the pandemic? 00:15:12.155 --> 00:15:12.475 Yeah. 00:15:12.475 --> 00:15:13.275 I'd say so. 00:15:13.275 --> 00:15:14.575 I I think it fluctuates. 00:15:14.635 --> 00:15:14.875 Right? 00:15:14.875 --> 00:15:28.240 Because one of the things that I see in faith communities that perhaps we haven't kind of noted is what it's been like to be physically cut off from your faith and faith traditions and how that has a real spiritual, but also psychological impact. 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.420 So I think that piece is certainly there. 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:51.055 But going to kind of what you were reflecting on that there's a trend to say that people with faith practices and faith communities are doing better is a sense of what what a lot of us are wrestling with with the pandemic is how much it shifted our world view, shifted our sense of our you know, politically, it's had huge ramifications, but also, like, what's under our control. 00:15:51.380 --> 00:15:59.480 And those are big things to kind of wrestle with, not just on a like theoretical level, but on an emotional level, on a lived level. 00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:13.585 And a faith system gives you a way to make sense of that, as opposed to someone who doesn't have that who's trying to take all of that on, while also building a framework to understand the impact of this. 00:16:13.965 --> 00:16:14.205 Right? 00:16:14.205 --> 00:16:21.490 So think about it this way, someone with faith is already kind of has a sense that they're not in control, but somebody else is. 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:26.430 A loving, caring, father is in control. 00:16:26.430 --> 00:16:30.930 And there's already kind of an acceptance and a wrestling inside with the idea that I don't have control. 00:16:31.310 --> 00:16:34.130 That's different from somebody who hasn't wrestled with that. 00:16:34.705 --> 00:16:41.285 I wanna touch on some of the, mood disorders that can be effectively treated in therapy. 00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:50.005 Are there particular, mood disorders maybe that are more prevalent nowadays that can be effectively treated, and what are they? 00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:56.540 I would just say kind of broadly, we know that therapy is effective for a variety of disorders and different disorders. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.340 Research has demonstrated that different types of therapy work better than others. 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:08.215 But what we know is that therapy and even therapy in combination with medication helps. 00:17:09.875 --> 00:17:15.015 So the second part of your question of what is kind of coming up in people and does therapy help with that? 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:20.150 Therapy is really helpful with stress and chronic stress and life adjustment issues. 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:30.855 But also a lot of what we're seeing is a rise in depression, a rise in anxiety, and a rise in substance use, also a rise in anger management and meaninglessness. 00:17:32.035 --> 00:17:34.935 And therapy can help someone address all of those. 00:17:35.155 --> 00:17:49.310 And really, it's just kind of your talk therapy, working with a therapist to understand what exactly is going on inside, and what strategies do they know of and ways of working on those difficulties are they familiar with and how can that help you. 00:17:49.610 --> 00:17:53.230 How can therapy help people with personal relationships? 00:17:53.290 --> 00:17:55.755 I think personal relationships are very important. 00:17:55.755 --> 00:18:12.310 And I as you were speaking, I was thinking that, that in personal relationships, there's almost a therapeutic dimension in good in good, in good relationships with with a spouse, with family members, children. 00:18:12.310 --> 00:18:20.650 Those can be opportunities for growth and learning and sharing and all things that I would say contribute to good mental health. 00:18:21.575 --> 00:18:28.615 But let's say those relationships are are straining because of, external conditions, whatever they might be. 00:18:28.615 --> 00:18:30.215 How can therapy help with those? 00:18:30.215 --> 00:18:35.435 You know, for example, with help couples or families, friends, and even in in professional environments. 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:37.460 Yeah. 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:38.260 Couple thoughts. 00:18:38.260 --> 00:18:46.980 The first thing that kind of strikes strikes me is that therapy is a relationship, and you're in dialogue with another person. 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:54.965 And one of the ways that therapy can help is you notice what happens between you and the therapist, And that can teach you about what happens in other relationships. 00:18:55.665 --> 00:19:01.505 But in therapy, you can be very transparent about it and say like, well, I'm nervous about this, or I think you're judging me. 00:19:01.505 --> 00:19:03.505 And then and that makes me really anxious. 00:19:03.505 --> 00:19:05.525 Like, okay, that's really important. 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.460 I wonder if this fear comes up in other domains. 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:14.460 So you kind of work things out in this relationship to help you understand others outside of it. 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:31.295 Another way of thinking about it is what we notice in therapy and what you attend to are the beliefs that we have about ourselves, the things that we've learned from past relationships that shape the way we think about ourselves, the way we think about other people, and how we think relationships work. 00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:40.540 And what you do in therapy is you start to kind of mine for those and identify what they are, and then test different hypothesis like, is that true? 00:19:40.540 --> 00:19:41.520 What are the exceptions? 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:47.745 What are more helpful and realistic ways to think about yourself to think about other people? 00:19:47.965 --> 00:20:00.705 What are new ways of interacting that you didn't know or you haven't tried yet that would allow you to reduce the conflict in your life, but also engage more deeply, feel more connected with somebody else? 00:20:00.970 --> 00:20:02.250 We touched on this before. 00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:10.830 You talked about this a little bit before about life changes, circumstances changing, different challenges coming and going. 00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:15.310 How does therapy help someone navigate those changes? 00:20:15.935 --> 00:20:17.135 Can you kinda sum that up? 00:20:17.135 --> 00:20:23.955 I touched that a number of times, but sum that up because life is just full of changes, unexpected things happening. 00:20:24.575 --> 00:20:26.275 How does therapy help with those? 00:20:26.815 --> 00:20:33.130 One of the things that we've known kind of in the field is that changes have a real psychological toll. 00:20:33.130 --> 00:20:35.070 And that's true for everybody. 00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:44.430 Like some of the most stressful times in people's lives are going to college, huge change, buying a house for the first time, huge change, getting married. 00:20:44.855 --> 00:20:47.975 And and some of those the ones that I listed, like, those are positive changes. 00:20:47.975 --> 00:20:48.475 Right? 00:20:48.615 --> 00:20:54.155 But that comes with a psychological tool, like you're leaving an old life and creating a new life. 00:20:54.375 --> 00:21:16.135 And what therapy does is it can help you understand what is going on inside of me that's making this hard, and what are the new things that I'll need in this new stage of life, or what are the things that I'm breathing about what I'm leaving behind that are making it hard to feel more comfortable here, to feel engaged in this adjustment period. 00:21:16.515 --> 00:21:20.375 And what what we found kind of is that people take time to adjust. 00:21:20.995 --> 00:21:29.540 And we kind of know this on an anecdotal level, but sometimes in it when we're in it, it's hard to feel like what we're feeling is normal, or it, it'll just go away with time. 00:21:29.540 --> 00:21:40.600 And what we actually know is that some people can, some people adjust better than others, but also some people adjust better at certain seasons in their life than they do at other seasons in their life. 00:21:40.755 --> 00:21:57.050 And so what therapy can do is just help you access those resources, help you identify the things that are keeping you stuck or making this hard, and identifying new ways of engaging and understanding yourself and self and the circumstances to help that transition go more smoothly. 00:21:57.590 --> 00:22:02.810 One of the big changes I think people are facing nowadays is loss of a loved one. 00:22:02.870 --> 00:22:07.645 Could be as a result of the pandemic or just, for other reasons. 00:22:08.585 --> 00:22:11.005 How can therapy help someone who's grieving? 00:22:11.225 --> 00:22:15.305 And and and there are I think a lot of people out there, they're they're suffering and they're grieving. 00:22:15.305 --> 00:22:16.845 How can therapy help there? 00:22:17.305 --> 00:22:20.930 Grief is such a tremendously painful experience. 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:25.490 And I think that unlike, well, maybe I should put it this way. 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:40.305 One is the ways that we think about grieving when we've grieved in the past is it's a very individual and yet shared experience, you share the loss with others, you have the funeral, and you see that others are also impacted by this loss. 00:22:40.525 --> 00:22:42.865 And you're able to kind of breathe with others. 00:22:43.325 --> 00:22:56.490 And one thing that's become particularly complicated in the pandemic is even if you know that a loved one may die, you don't have access to the ways to navigate that process that you had pre pandemic, right? 00:22:56.490 --> 00:22:59.610 So you envision that, like, at some point, my parents will pass away. 00:22:59.610 --> 00:23:02.030 And that's a lot that's very frightening and upsetting. 00:23:02.515 --> 00:23:06.935 But then the the narrative changes, right, because now you can't go be with them. 00:23:08.275 --> 00:23:12.935 Now you don't know if you'll have the funeral, and that has a real impact. 00:23:13.155 --> 00:23:18.450 Part of what we do when we manage stress is we anticipate it, and we build out a plan. 00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:21.650 And what's happened now is that that's not been possible. 00:23:21.710 --> 00:23:23.630 You don't even know, like, can you get there? 00:23:23.630 --> 00:23:27.490 Can you be with your siblings as you navigate this process? 00:23:28.030 --> 00:23:33.575 How can you express your love through a screen rather than through a squeeze of a hand? 00:23:34.195 --> 00:23:40.775 And therapy allows you to have a place to kind of unpack that and understand how your expectations differed. 00:23:40.835 --> 00:23:42.275 And some people don't need therapy. 00:23:42.275 --> 00:23:44.615 Some people are able to work this out with other people. 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:53.220 But one of the things that I think we underestimate about the benefits of therapy is how outside of the situation the therapist is. 00:23:54.480 --> 00:24:03.155 That when we're grieving and we know that the person we're close to is also grieving, it can be hard to navigate that tension of how do we grieve together? 00:24:03.935 --> 00:24:06.515 How do I support you and get what I need? 00:24:06.655 --> 00:24:09.635 And in therapy, you have someone that you don't have to support. 00:24:10.255 --> 00:24:32.525 You have someone who's kind of outside of it, but who understands the grieving process more broadly, And that can allow a greater freedom of exploration and attending that, in my opinion, should allow you to go back to the loved ones that you're grieving with and grieve together in a in a more helpful way, in a way that really helps you process and be connected. 00:24:32.825 --> 00:24:50.310 So therapy shouldn't just be, like, out here isolated working on this on my own, but it should allow you to kind of return and feel like you are able to say goodbye, to navigate the emotions and fears that are coming up, but also to support and be supported more by the loved ones who are sharing the loss with you. 00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:59.830 If, somebody has, would like to get therapy or even has questions about therapy, what steps should they take? 00:25:00.325 --> 00:25:01.145 It's a great question. 00:25:01.685 --> 00:25:04.885 The first step is to try and find a therapist in your area. 00:25:04.885 --> 00:25:10.665 You can do that through an Internet search, like, through a website called psychologytoday.com. 00:25:10.805 --> 00:25:20.540 You can also do it by calling your insurance provider and asking them for a list of therapists that fall under your insurance or that they recommend, and then you'll call them. 00:25:20.540 --> 00:25:39.545 So here at the IPS center, you can give us a call, and we'll talk to you and do a phone screening where we tell you a little bit about the center, what it looks like to receive care here, the services that we're offering, and you would share a little bit about what's bringing you to therapy, what your concerns are, and we'll decide together if we're a good fit. 00:25:39.845 --> 00:25:47.800 So for example, at the center right now, we're offering telehealth sessions for adults, and it's individual therapy. 00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:50.380 And so we'll tell you a little bit about what that looks like. 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.320 And then you can tell us a little bit about what you're looking for. 00:25:53.320 --> 00:25:55.740 And we'll decide together if we're a good fit. 00:25:56.280 --> 00:26:01.320 What I think will happen soon is even at the IPS Center, we're probably going to open to a hybrid model. 00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:12.595 So remote and in person options where you can kind of decide, you know, do I feel like I wanna meet in person, or do I wanna meet remotely with somebody to to do my therapy? 00:26:13.695 --> 00:26:18.080 You mentioned, people from Virginia contacting you here at the clinic. 00:26:18.300 --> 00:26:26.400 With TeleMed today, can people outside the state, contact the clinic and get, answers to their questions or even get therapy? 00:26:26.780 --> 00:26:27.820 It's a great question. 00:26:27.820 --> 00:26:35.735 I think it's been very confusing for people because even those laws have shifted, especially in The United States over the course of COVID. 00:26:36.515 --> 00:26:42.615 By and large, clinicians are only allowed to work with people within the state that they're licensed. 00:26:42.835 --> 00:26:52.560 So I'm licensed in Virginia, which means only Virginia has granted me permission and verified my credentials that I can offer therapy to Virginia residents. 00:26:53.180 --> 00:26:56.140 So it doesn't make kind of sense on a practical level. 00:26:56.140 --> 00:27:00.645 You could be in California, let's say, and there's a clinician in Virginia you wanted to work with. 00:27:00.805 --> 00:27:03.625 But legally speaking, you're in California. 00:27:03.685 --> 00:27:09.065 And so you only someone approved by the psychology board of California can work with you. 00:27:09.365 --> 00:27:10.985 So you have to kind of understand. 00:27:11.125 --> 00:27:17.800 Now a clinician could be, I could be licensed in Virginia and California, in which case I can work with somebody in California. 00:27:18.260 --> 00:27:25.400 But our regulations in The United States say that you have to work by someone licensed in the state where you, the client, are located. 00:27:26.105 --> 00:27:38.445 If somebody were to were to call from out of state, could you make a referral or a recommendation to somebody you know in in their state, that would be, good for them, maybe a good fit for them? 00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:41.930 We certainly try, and we definitely get recommendations for that. 00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:47.530 We aren't we don't have a huge database of people that we know in the broader United States. 00:27:47.530 --> 00:27:54.030 But if we do get a request for that, we do try and help someone orient at least to how to find a therapist near them. 00:27:54.415 --> 00:28:02.035 Sometimes we get requests for to see if there's a DMU alum working in the area, and there's actually a place on our website. 00:28:02.175 --> 00:28:11.050 I think it's under the alumni tab where you can find and search for a DMU alum and see where we're working all across The United States. 00:28:11.510 --> 00:28:14.630 And that's actually where we direct people who ask us about it. 00:28:14.630 --> 00:28:16.490 We direct them back to that web page. 00:28:17.030 --> 00:28:20.490 You can go to our website, divinemercy.edu. 00:28:20.790 --> 00:28:23.485 And you're saying that's where they would find that information? 00:28:23.785 --> 00:28:24.105 Yeah. 00:28:24.105 --> 00:28:25.965 It's under the alumni tab. 00:28:26.105 --> 00:28:31.145 Can you share with us the, website address for this for the center and, your phone number? 00:28:31.145 --> 00:28:31.645 Absolutely. 00:28:32.265 --> 00:28:42.220 Our website is ipscenter.org, and our phone number is (703) 418-2111. 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:43.960 Thank you so much. 00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:53.635 Well, this has been another informative, very interesting, discussion, and I hope it, it helps people out there who have listened to it. 00:28:53.775 --> 00:28:58.655 And, doctor Orianna, I'd like to thank you so much for all you do for those in need. 00:28:58.655 --> 00:29:04.355 And I thank you for being part of our podcast, and I look forward to talking with you again very soon. 00:29:04.410 --> 00:29:05.610 Have a wonderful day. 00:29:05.610 --> 00:29:06.830 Thanks for having me.