WEBVTT 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:12.180 Welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:13.540 My name is Thomas Kronquist. 00:00:13.680 --> 00:00:18.215 I'm your guest host with father Charles Sikorsky, the president of Divine Mercy University. 00:00:18.215 --> 00:00:19.595 Father, how are you doing today? 00:00:20.135 --> 00:00:21.175 I'm just fine, Tom. 00:00:21.175 --> 00:00:21.895 How are you? 00:00:21.895 --> 00:00:22.455 Very good. 00:00:22.455 --> 00:00:23.175 Very good. 00:00:23.175 --> 00:00:27.015 Well, we have another interesting, program today. 00:00:27.015 --> 00:00:34.330 We're gonna continue talking with doctor, Cathy Erwin of the MS Counseling program here at Divine Mercy University. 00:00:34.630 --> 00:00:37.770 Today, we're gonna discuss multigenerational families. 00:00:38.470 --> 00:00:40.550 Doctor Erwin, welcome to the show. 00:00:40.550 --> 00:00:41.670 How are you doing today? 00:00:41.670 --> 00:00:42.230 Very good. 00:00:42.230 --> 00:00:42.825 Thank you. 00:00:42.905 --> 00:00:45.225 Tell us about multigenerational families. 00:00:45.225 --> 00:00:46.285 What does that mean? 00:00:46.425 --> 00:00:50.845 Well, in many cultures around the world, that's just the way people have lived for generations. 00:00:51.305 --> 00:00:57.885 But in America, we've gotten away from that over the years, where older adults live on their own or they live in communities. 00:00:58.490 --> 00:01:04.830 When they get less capable of taking care of themselves, they they may go to an older adult community. 00:01:05.370 --> 00:01:10.490 Whereas in years past, generations past, actually, everybody moved together. 00:01:10.490 --> 00:01:13.550 Think for a minute about the old classic TV show, The Waltons. 00:01:14.205 --> 00:01:17.105 You could still see it on o on on classic TV. 00:01:17.245 --> 00:01:22.065 This was a family in, the mountains of West Virginia, I believe, during the depression. 00:01:22.525 --> 00:01:26.145 And the grandparents lived with them, but they also helped in the household. 00:01:26.205 --> 00:01:27.425 The children were there. 00:01:27.810 --> 00:01:35.030 It was a multigenerational family that functioned generally quite well, and there was great respect shown to the older adults. 00:01:35.410 --> 00:01:37.590 Well, we haven't done it that well recently. 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:54.865 And what we have happening and even more so since the pandemic is sometimes it's the younger adults with their young children or a single younger adult moving back in with mom and dad for economic reasons, loss of job, or it's bringing the older family members. 00:01:55.300 --> 00:02:01.320 I have worked with families that have five generations under one roof, and so that changes the dynamic. 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:11.435 So when we look at what we call a diagram of the family, a genogram, what's at the top now of the multigenerational family is what I call the de facto mom and dad. 00:02:11.895 --> 00:02:15.675 And that's often it was the baby boomer couple or person. 00:02:15.735 --> 00:02:17.675 Now a lot of times, it's the Gen Xer. 00:02:18.215 --> 00:02:26.400 And this is the one who functions as the parent to everybody, parent to her parents, to his parents, parent to the children, parent to the grandchildren. 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:35.025 And because we're Americans and we like our space and we want it our way, you know, the old Burger King commercial have it your way, we all want that. 00:02:35.505 --> 00:02:43.425 When other generations move in, it definitely changes the family system sometimes for the better, too often not for the better. 00:02:43.425 --> 00:02:48.565 And it's definitely a strain on the marriage of what I call the functional mom and dad. 00:02:49.650 --> 00:02:53.430 Yet how common is this these days, and how how fast has this been accelerating? 00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:58.550 You mentioned the pandemic and, other, causes for that. 00:02:58.930 --> 00:03:04.855 Multigenerational family living has increased even pre pandemic and, a lot of times, economic reasons. 00:03:05.395 --> 00:03:07.975 You you probably heard the term boomerang adult. 00:03:08.675 --> 00:03:17.575 Well, that is a young adult who goes out sometimes after high school, after college, maybe has a failed relationship, maybe loses a good job. 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:21.360 There's economic reasons, and moves back in with mom and dad. 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:34.255 So we have the the child, who is no longer a child, by the way, moving back in, and it's an incredible change of dynamics, between the parents and the older adult or the younger adult, rather. 00:03:34.315 --> 00:03:46.240 And then if the younger adult moves back in with children, while, of course, grandparents are thrilled to have the grandchildren there, but then comes the family conflict of who's parenting these kids? 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:48.160 Who's making the decisions? 00:03:48.380 --> 00:03:49.360 Who's in charge? 00:03:49.820 --> 00:03:53.600 And that creates a conflict between parent and adult child. 00:03:54.140 --> 00:03:56.075 Oh, I usually hear about this. 00:03:56.075 --> 00:04:10.530 I I started recognizing this a number of years ago when I would hear from the couple, who I call the de facto parents, who would be struggling in their own relationship because, you know, well, your older mother moved in with us, and now we don't have any time together. 00:04:10.530 --> 00:04:15.110 Or the kids move back together, get back here, and all we do is take care of the kids. 00:04:15.730 --> 00:04:22.070 It's interesting how that started to surface in my attention, and I started recognizing these needs of multigenerational families. 00:04:22.505 --> 00:04:25.005 One thing it would require is a larger house. 00:04:27.305 --> 00:04:34.505 Oftentimes, people are living in the house they can afford, and, maybe it's not a it's not a large house. 00:04:34.825 --> 00:04:38.190 Multigenerational families would require more living space. 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:40.850 So that's just one economic consideration. 00:04:41.150 --> 00:04:47.390 But, so do you see that the trend is moving more toward this now, our culture moving back toward this? 00:04:47.390 --> 00:04:50.030 Is this a is this a is this a trend? 00:04:50.030 --> 00:04:51.250 Would you call this a trend? 00:04:51.655 --> 00:04:55.015 I watch this, in demog in demographic sites. 00:04:56.375 --> 00:04:58.775 It it definitely is an economic issue. 00:04:58.775 --> 00:05:04.555 And then, of course, the pandemic situation pushed that even further, but it was starting before that. 00:05:04.970 --> 00:05:07.710 And, you know, it's very expensive for young people. 00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:10.910 They start moving out, trying to get a home of their own. 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:13.310 There's really a lot of consumer debt. 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:20.025 There are people who move out and then have failed relationships, and they come back to back to the family home. 00:05:20.025 --> 00:05:27.565 But when you have a young adult or even an older adult move into your home, what happens is nobody talks about it. 00:05:28.025 --> 00:05:29.145 This is gonna be fine. 00:05:29.145 --> 00:05:33.800 We're all gonna be good together, but we don't discuss things like space and privacy. 00:05:34.580 --> 00:05:40.020 And, you know, the one of the world's great dilemmas, if you have three generations of women in the kitchen. 00:05:40.020 --> 00:05:50.105 I don't know if it's the same for three generations of men out in the tool shed, but three generations of women in the kitchen it's always been an issue, at least in our culture. 00:05:50.485 --> 00:05:56.025 So it's it's just when people move back together and nobody talks about how are we gonna do this? 00:05:56.325 --> 00:05:57.365 Who has space? 00:05:57.365 --> 00:05:58.425 Who has purpose? 00:05:58.565 --> 00:06:00.185 Who has charge over things? 00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:02.930 And they just think it's all gonna magically work. 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:05.810 And it doesn't just magically work. 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:07.590 It ends up straining relationships. 00:06:08.450 --> 00:06:08.610 Yeah. 00:06:08.610 --> 00:06:12.790 It sounds like this is something where you could have a lot of elephants in the room. 00:06:13.730 --> 00:06:14.770 A lot of them. 00:06:14.770 --> 00:06:15.885 They run into each other. 00:06:16.365 --> 00:06:16.605 Yeah. 00:06:16.605 --> 00:06:20.065 And, you know, you're thinking a family kinda, well, we don't wanna be you know? 00:06:21.005 --> 00:06:33.770 How do you what, I mean, this can happen in any organization or group of people, you know, where there's this fear of bringing up something that every everybody knows is an issue, and, yeah, it just kinda sits there and, simmers and gets I don't know. 00:06:33.770 --> 00:06:42.430 What so what what would you say are some good ways to combat that, to have better communication of, hey. 00:06:42.745 --> 00:06:44.585 You know, I love you. 00:06:44.585 --> 00:06:46.285 We wanna help you as much as you can. 00:06:46.345 --> 00:06:55.705 However, you know, what how how do have you seen because some people are just less conflict or more conflict diverse than others. 00:06:55.705 --> 00:06:57.565 I guess they just don't wanna bring things up. 00:06:58.260 --> 00:07:02.580 It's a matter of talking about it as it happens and before it happens. 00:07:02.580 --> 00:07:04.340 Sometimes it's an emergency situation. 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:06.020 A parent is ill, needs your help. 00:07:06.020 --> 00:07:08.360 Sometimes your young adult needs to move back. 00:07:08.740 --> 00:07:11.720 One of my twins, I bless the mother of twins. 00:07:12.025 --> 00:07:17.145 One of my twins, moved back home with us, and and I said, okay. 00:07:17.145 --> 00:07:18.905 Let's talk about how this is gonna work. 00:07:18.905 --> 00:07:21.005 First of all, I'm not mommy anymore. 00:07:21.545 --> 00:07:25.320 You're an adult, and I'm not gonna hunt you down. 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:25.960 Here's the thing. 00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:27.820 I'm gonna ask you if you're gonna be home for dinner. 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:29.480 I'm gonna ask your help with things. 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:30.860 But, basically, you're an adult. 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.340 And the funny part is it's not me that hunts Kelly. 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:36.760 It's her twin, Robin. 00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:38.860 Robin would call and go, so where is Kelly? 00:07:39.065 --> 00:07:39.865 I don't know. 00:07:39.865 --> 00:07:40.985 When is she coming home? 00:07:40.985 --> 00:07:41.705 I don't know. 00:07:41.705 --> 00:07:42.845 Why don't you know? 00:07:42.985 --> 00:07:44.765 Because I'm not in charge of her anymore. 00:07:44.985 --> 00:07:46.585 Just like I'm not in charge of you. 00:07:46.585 --> 00:07:47.485 You know? 00:07:48.185 --> 00:07:56.930 But a lot of parents, when the older adult child moves in, they think they're they're gonna be mama again, and they're gonna control a certain number of things. 00:07:57.390 --> 00:07:59.250 And that's where the conflict starts. 00:07:59.310 --> 00:08:01.550 Nobody talks about that elephant, father Charles. 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:06.530 And you know that thing just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and it erupts into a conflict. 00:08:07.045 --> 00:08:12.185 So I tell parents that if you have an older adult child moving back, let's talk about this. 00:08:12.645 --> 00:08:15.765 And, no, you don't really need to control them like you did. 00:08:15.765 --> 00:08:19.285 I mean, my daughters will tell you I was extremely controlling until they turned 18. 00:08:19.285 --> 00:08:21.385 And then I said, you're you're you're grown ups. 00:08:21.650 --> 00:08:23.270 Mama's not gonna control anymore. 00:08:24.130 --> 00:08:25.110 And I don't. 00:08:25.490 --> 00:08:28.050 And it makes for a a very happy arrangement. 00:08:28.050 --> 00:08:31.890 I heard my daughter, Kelly, say to a friend recently, said, have you ever thought about moving out? 00:08:31.890 --> 00:08:32.370 She goes, why? 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:33.750 My mother's a perfect roommate. 00:08:35.695 --> 00:08:41.695 So does this, situation, sometimes turn into something that needs therapy and counseling? 00:08:41.695 --> 00:08:43.155 Or do you have experience with that? 00:08:43.215 --> 00:08:43.695 Oh, yes. 00:08:43.695 --> 00:08:44.435 It does. 00:08:45.055 --> 00:08:47.475 And it's a strain on the relationship. 00:08:47.775 --> 00:08:52.730 It's it's a strain on the usually, again, the couple, the the parents. 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:54.470 They start to get into a battle. 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:57.430 One parent will be, well, this is you know, leave the kid alone. 00:08:57.430 --> 00:08:57.990 She's fine. 00:08:57.990 --> 00:08:59.850 Or do this or let's not do that. 00:09:00.230 --> 00:09:02.230 And then they start to have issues. 00:09:02.230 --> 00:09:18.990 But that's how I really discovered the multigenerational family dynamic was working with couples and finding out some of these issues where, well, since your mother moved in with us, since our children moved back, since we started taking care of the grandchildren and I found out there were there was no discussion about how this was gonna work. 00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:24.110 There were no boundaries because some adult children will move back with their children. 00:09:24.110 --> 00:09:25.310 And it's like, oh, hey. 00:09:25.310 --> 00:09:26.030 Grandma's here. 00:09:26.030 --> 00:09:27.710 She could she can take care of everything. 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:29.230 Grandpa can take them to school. 00:09:29.230 --> 00:09:30.930 I can just go be a kid again. 00:09:31.485 --> 00:09:31.885 No. 00:09:31.885 --> 00:09:33.025 That's the wrong answer. 00:09:34.125 --> 00:09:35.985 So it's a matter of negotiating. 00:09:36.365 --> 00:09:37.805 We're gonna live in the same house. 00:09:37.805 --> 00:09:39.425 And you mentioned size of house. 00:09:39.805 --> 00:09:45.150 Whose house we live in, especially when older adults move in, is a battleground issue. 00:09:46.010 --> 00:09:50.830 Because grandma may want you to move into her house, but it may not be as roomy. 00:09:51.370 --> 00:09:56.715 There may not be there may be or there may be stairs if they if grandma wants to move in your house. 00:09:57.035 --> 00:10:12.000 So a lot of homes, even home builders now, are more commonly building houses with two master suites on the Ground Floor with the anticipation that there may be an older adult moving in and and which the status would be an issue. 00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:14.960 So it's that's actually showing up a lot in home builders. 00:10:16.220 --> 00:10:17.600 It's a response to the trend. 00:10:18.460 --> 00:10:26.375 You mentioned earlier that this is, kind of an American problem, and we don't seem to do a good job because other cultures are poor. 00:10:26.435 --> 00:10:30.195 I guess people have, have adjusted to it. 00:10:30.195 --> 00:10:37.500 And maybe because of our freedom and economic opportunity in this country, we've had a lot less of it or had historically. 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:45.100 What are some of the things we might learn from other cultures to make to help us handle this in a better way? 00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:54.885 Well, I think a lot of it starts, father, with respect for older adults and and realizing that there is a certain responsibility. 00:10:55.905 --> 00:11:03.125 Those people who cared for us in our dependency may someday be dependent and need us. 00:11:03.505 --> 00:11:10.290 So it's not an and there's a cultural context issue, individualistic cultures versus collectivistic cultures. 00:11:10.290 --> 00:11:12.310 I tell this to my students all the time. 00:11:13.010 --> 00:11:17.270 Collectivistic cultures tend to presume it is an expectation. 00:11:17.410 --> 00:11:23.025 In fact, it's even considered an honor to care for the older adults as well as the younger in your family. 00:11:23.245 --> 00:11:26.845 Individualistic cultures are more on their own. 00:11:26.845 --> 00:11:29.905 You don't live two blocks away from your parents anymore. 00:11:30.365 --> 00:11:33.340 And you may live five states away from your parents. 00:11:33.880 --> 00:11:36.300 So we don't look at it quite the same way. 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.260 And yet as people live longer, that's a blessing. 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:40.620 Long life is a blessing. 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:44.540 Then their dependency years are likely to be greater. 00:11:45.015 --> 00:11:50.555 In earlier generations where living to 60 or 65 was kind of a big deal, you made it to 70. 00:11:50.615 --> 00:11:51.115 Wow. 00:11:51.495 --> 00:11:52.135 That was great. 00:11:52.135 --> 00:11:54.315 Not that many people lived in older ages. 00:11:54.535 --> 00:12:02.600 Now living well into the eighties, is far more common, and the fastest growing demographic group in America is 85. 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.220 That surprises most people. 00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:18.875 What are some of the criteria that would, you can use to determine if a situation like this isn't working where, you know, if you're not certainly have to be talking about it and communication would be very helpful. 00:12:18.875 --> 00:12:29.420 But are there certain, criteria or certain signals, signs that this multi generational, formula is not is not working and you need to look for something else? 00:12:29.420 --> 00:12:31.440 There is tremendous stress in the household. 00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:32.860 People are not getting along. 00:12:32.860 --> 00:12:34.560 They're not talking to each other. 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:42.165 And one of the first ones I see again is if there's a couple who I consider the parent of everybody, it's straining their marriage. 00:12:43.025 --> 00:12:51.925 And that's kind of the first time maybe they have sought counseling, not necessarily for multigenerational family living, but it's straining their it's straining their relationship. 00:12:52.560 --> 00:13:00.740 And it's like, well, your mother since your mother moved in or your dad has all these needs or you've always catered to the kids, those are the things I hear. 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.380 And so when that if that you know, I I've gotta, first of all, try to keep that relationship. 00:13:06.415 --> 00:13:10.435 Because if that relationship breaks, that's right now the backbone of the whole family. 00:13:10.495 --> 00:13:11.375 And so what do they do? 00:13:11.375 --> 00:13:15.075 They either yell at each other or they all stop talking. 00:13:15.455 --> 00:13:17.875 And I found an interesting way to change that. 00:13:18.335 --> 00:13:19.315 And what's that? 00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:22.780 Well, it's part of what I call the PDL approach to counseling. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:24.060 Pure dumb luck. 00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:29.640 I had tried everything I could think of and all of my, you know, bag of tricks, and nothing was working. 00:13:29.640 --> 00:13:31.800 So I said to a family I talked to them about journaling. 00:13:31.800 --> 00:13:32.680 Nobody wanted to journal. 00:13:32.680 --> 00:13:33.160 I said, okay. 00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:34.335 Here's what we're gonna do. 00:13:34.655 --> 00:13:35.795 They're all in my office. 00:13:36.255 --> 00:13:40.515 Gonna put a notebook down on the kitchen counter where everybody goes every day. 00:13:40.735 --> 00:13:42.915 And I said, mom, you're gonna start it. 00:13:43.535 --> 00:13:45.855 Every day, a different person starts it. 00:13:45.855 --> 00:13:48.035 You have to write one positive sentence. 00:13:48.175 --> 00:13:49.290 I I don't care what it is. 00:13:49.290 --> 00:13:51.230 It can be the weather's nice. 00:13:51.690 --> 00:13:53.630 It can be tomorrow's a holiday. 00:13:54.010 --> 00:13:56.510 One positive sentence does not accuse anyone. 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:04.635 Everybody in the family, kids and everybody, you read it, and you add a positive response, Or you ask a question. 00:14:05.255 --> 00:14:06.315 Nobody speaks. 00:14:06.375 --> 00:14:08.395 Everybody writes every single day. 00:14:08.695 --> 00:14:09.675 Bring me the journal. 00:14:10.535 --> 00:14:13.515 They're like, I don't want a day, and I ask everybody does it. 00:14:13.655 --> 00:14:14.395 You know? 00:14:14.615 --> 00:14:16.715 So the first week was a little strained. 00:14:18.230 --> 00:14:23.610 Actually, it was the teenager and the grandparent who were the most resistant to that, interestingly enough. 00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:25.850 But, okay, we did it. 00:14:26.070 --> 00:14:29.750 By the second week, they're they said, can we ask a question in the journal? 00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:31.370 Oh, yeah, if it's if it's positive. 00:14:32.575 --> 00:14:33.955 So we ask a question. 00:14:34.735 --> 00:14:38.595 By the third week, the journal got longer and longer. 00:14:39.295 --> 00:14:43.955 By the fourth week, one of the teenagers said, can we just talk? 00:14:46.095 --> 00:14:46.995 What an idea. 00:14:47.670 --> 00:14:48.170 Yes. 00:14:48.470 --> 00:14:49.510 You can just talk. 00:14:49.510 --> 00:14:51.050 How about you do it over dinner? 00:14:51.510 --> 00:14:53.270 Keep it positive, just like the journal. 00:14:53.270 --> 00:14:53.350 Yeah. 00:14:53.350 --> 00:14:54.070 Can we just talk? 00:14:54.070 --> 00:14:54.790 We're tired of writing. 00:14:54.790 --> 00:14:55.850 Can we just talk? 00:14:56.070 --> 00:14:56.310 Yeah. 00:14:56.310 --> 00:14:58.330 I think I think I could let you do that. 00:15:00.550 --> 00:15:01.770 And they started talking. 00:15:02.745 --> 00:15:06.045 And they found out that they could talk and talk pleasantly. 00:15:07.945 --> 00:15:09.725 And that was one of those things. 00:15:09.945 --> 00:15:12.925 That's what I call my help god therapy, father. 00:15:13.385 --> 00:15:20.880 When I'm sitting with a client and I've tried everything I can do and I put on my therapeutic smile, and my little voice in my head goes, help, lord. 00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:22.000 I got no idea. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.060 I need something. 00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:26.980 And, you know, he gives it to me. 00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.240 Help god therapy. 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:28.740 Yeah. 00:15:29.520 --> 00:15:29.760 Hey. 00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:30.560 Let's help god. 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:30.960 Right? 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:31.940 But, you know, positivity. 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:32.320 Right? 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:35.435 Is that it's so sort of, like, contagious, I guess? 00:15:35.895 --> 00:15:43.415 Well, when families are disputing, everybody points to the thing they don't like about each other and the thing that frustrates them about each other. 00:15:43.415 --> 00:15:48.850 And they become so focused on that, same in relationships, that they don't see the other side. 00:15:48.850 --> 00:15:52.290 So I just push them sometimes to see the other side. 00:15:52.290 --> 00:15:55.510 And I'm not negating that there are problems by any means. 00:15:56.050 --> 00:16:01.110 But if all you're gonna do is point out the negative, you are never ever gonna get to relationship. 00:16:02.355 --> 00:16:07.735 From what you're saying, you know, negotiating boundaries was was one of the things that has to happen here. 00:16:08.435 --> 00:16:09.795 Some people love to negotiate. 00:16:09.795 --> 00:16:11.735 A lot of people are intimidated by the word. 00:16:12.435 --> 00:16:12.755 Yeah. 00:16:12.755 --> 00:16:20.990 What are some of the things you should try to avoid or pitfalls in in doing that so that it doesn't become one-sided in some way? 00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:24.050 Because that way, it could may not really help solve the problem. 00:16:24.670 --> 00:16:27.250 But any suggestions for how to do that well? 00:16:27.495 --> 00:16:35.495 I think families have to talk about what each person, what do you what do I need, in within the family? 00:16:35.495 --> 00:16:36.475 What do I need? 00:16:36.935 --> 00:16:43.275 And maybe for one person, it's I need some quiet time because I'm going to graduate school, and I have to study. 00:16:43.630 --> 00:16:49.250 And so if I could put a sign on my door saying I'm studying, could everybody respect that for an hour? 00:16:49.390 --> 00:16:51.950 Or maybe it's one of the parents saying, hey. 00:16:51.950 --> 00:16:55.330 You know, we we need help with other things around the house too. 00:16:55.390 --> 00:16:56.750 It's what do people need? 00:16:56.750 --> 00:17:00.785 Or maybe grandma or grandpa needs a little extra time to do things. 00:17:00.785 --> 00:17:02.085 How can we be patient? 00:17:02.865 --> 00:17:11.525 If we look at what people need and then figure out how can how can how can we participate in that need because everybody in the family has a different need. 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:12.780 Some people want quiet. 00:17:12.780 --> 00:17:14.080 Some people want a chat. 00:17:15.020 --> 00:17:18.860 How can we accommodate something of importance to each person? 00:17:18.860 --> 00:17:23.040 Because when we do that, what we're really doing is we're honoring that person. 00:17:24.505 --> 00:17:32.605 And some you know, especially a lot of cultures who are very collectivistic are particularly good at showing honor to their older adults. 00:17:32.825 --> 00:17:35.165 I don't think that's a word we use very often. 00:17:35.465 --> 00:17:39.245 Not often enough with our older adults is showing that we honor them. 00:17:39.700 --> 00:17:47.000 Seems like part of this is, making this multi generational family structure work is developing new habits. 00:17:48.020 --> 00:17:58.975 Writing down something in a journal every day and then week after week, it looks like a new habit was developing, a habit of communication, and it bloomed into something very beneficial. 00:17:59.595 --> 00:18:05.535 Maybe are there other habits that have to be developed, specific habits that have to be developed to make this work? 00:18:06.060 --> 00:18:14.560 I have suggested to families, let's find something that everybody can do that is, that you all feel is valuable. 00:18:15.260 --> 00:18:25.155 So, for example, if it's possible and, again, physical limitations, is there something you all could volunteer on maybe on a once or twice a month together? 00:18:25.155 --> 00:18:27.495 Could you go down and help your church's food pantry? 00:18:28.355 --> 00:18:31.255 Could you do something, you know, within the community? 00:18:32.270 --> 00:18:36.450 People who work together start to join together. 00:18:36.910 --> 00:18:42.210 So it needs to be an activity that everyone can physically or emotionally or mentally do. 00:18:42.270 --> 00:19:02.150 But what could we all do together, that helps outside of the household So we kind of take ourselves out as a group and that will vary by family and by interest You mentioned, honor honor of older people. 00:19:02.290 --> 00:19:07.110 And, it seems like it's, it's a real challenge in some ways today. 00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:19.875 I was reading about this, and it was one of the new I I I can't remember which generation group that they divided these people into, but because I'm now 57, so I'm starting to, like, think about this more realizing, hey. 00:19:19.875 --> 00:19:22.995 You know, I just don't click with some of these younger people right away. 00:19:22.995 --> 00:19:23.495 Right? 00:19:23.955 --> 00:19:33.510 And I found out that at least one article said that a younger one of the younger gen they didn't want to be lectured to or told what to do. 00:19:34.370 --> 00:19:37.510 But at at the same time, they had they they wanted mentors. 00:19:38.050 --> 00:19:40.770 Like, they wanted they wanted so it wasn't that they were closed. 00:19:40.770 --> 00:19:48.585 They didn't appreciate the experience and wisdom of, older people, but it's kinda like the delivery. 00:19:48.645 --> 00:19:52.565 And I I don't know if, if if that because it would seem like it's a universal thing. 00:19:52.565 --> 00:20:02.240 We all I mean, we should certainly be grateful for what our elders have done, but also appreciate the experience and the wisdom that they can give us. 00:20:03.100 --> 00:20:08.080 But it's there's gonna be, like, a mutual how how what what are good ways to foster that? 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:09.180 That's an excellent point. 00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:18.935 You know, mentoring has, of course, taken hold in the business community, looking for someone, you know, who has, like, proverbially has the job you want and to be a mentor. 00:20:19.235 --> 00:20:25.895 But there are opportunities for older adults to be mentors within their family or even within the community. 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:42.575 Some of the volunteers when my daughters were in our church's teen group That were the most effective and that and the biggest blessing were older adults who volunteered with the middle school and high school group now I wouldn't wanna volunteer with the middle school and high school group. 00:20:42.575 --> 00:20:47.715 I was grateful somebody else was doing it, but they just had a way with teenagers. 00:20:48.255 --> 00:20:49.535 And I was so thankful. 00:20:49.535 --> 00:20:54.115 I said to our to our director of middle school and high school, thanks for including them. 00:20:54.510 --> 00:21:01.890 Because sometimes in church based groups and other groups, no one wants to invite the grandparent types. 00:21:02.830 --> 00:21:05.730 And yet, you know, what a blessing. 00:21:06.270 --> 00:21:07.230 They would listen. 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:14.665 Teenagers will listen to the grandparents and the older adults at times when they don't listen to their own parents or that generation. 00:21:14.805 --> 00:21:19.465 So it's a wealth and, you know, we have to find somebody who has a heart for that, of course. 00:21:20.725 --> 00:21:29.110 But we're we're we're not taking the maximum advantage of the wisdom that's all around us, either in our churches or our schools. 00:21:29.330 --> 00:21:30.710 Some schools have programs. 00:21:30.770 --> 00:21:38.755 I know they do in my area where I live in Florida where older adult volunteers come in and read to children, during some lunch break times. 00:21:39.295 --> 00:21:44.515 And sometimes they a few of these schools I know are in a little bit, you know, more disadvantaged areas. 00:21:44.735 --> 00:21:49.475 So maybe there's not as many people around to read or to do activities with children. 00:21:49.855 --> 00:21:54.270 That's such a blessing, We just and there's a even a foster grandparents program. 00:21:54.570 --> 00:21:55.630 And isn't it interesting? 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:58.270 Why are these all in the secular world? 00:21:58.810 --> 00:21:59.870 Where's our church? 00:22:00.010 --> 00:22:01.950 Why are we not doing this more? 00:22:02.810 --> 00:22:19.410 Seems to me one thing that could be very helpful is for the, more elderly members of this multi multi generational family these multi generational families is to, relate interesting experiences they've had in their lives. 00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:26.770 You mentioned this before, I think maybe in an earlier podcast about, you know, not people not wanting to hear the same story over and over. 00:22:26.770 --> 00:22:33.025 But some of the stories, the elderly might have can be very, very interesting. 00:22:33.085 --> 00:22:40.845 You know, they they they they live through a war, you know, or, you know, years ago it was, you know, I I lived through the depression, you know. 00:22:40.845 --> 00:22:47.260 Stories of experiences that young younger generation might not ever have, you know. 00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:57.580 And and if elderly, people would understand, you know, people love stories, relate some of the things to young people that they might never experience in their life. 00:22:57.580 --> 00:23:08.785 And maybe that would, you know, engage them and and and make, make them, make them, honor or value the, them in this in this family structure. 00:23:09.725 --> 00:23:09.965 Yes. 00:23:09.965 --> 00:23:16.705 Older adults have lived through a lot of life and have encountered similar experiences, maybe not exactly the same. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:23.780 So sometimes when I do older adult groups, one of the one of the easy conversation starters is, tell me about your first car. 00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:26.180 Tell me about the first trip that you took. 00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:32.435 What was the best experience you had when you were in high school or in school? 00:23:32.435 --> 00:23:33.955 Sometimes I say school in general. 00:23:33.955 --> 00:23:46.180 Now in today's older adults, sixties and seventies, more likely have have have been at least through high school, where some of my much older clients I've worked with in their eighties and nineties may have had to quit school in the eighth grade to go to work. 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:49.620 So high school is not something they know, but something about school. 00:23:49.760 --> 00:23:52.020 What is a what is a book you love? 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.980 What is a, you know, what is a story you love? 00:23:55.280 --> 00:24:04.145 And a lot of times, those will also call come from their cultural backgrounds, a special cultural story, which and one of the things older adults, they don't do it anymore. 00:24:04.145 --> 00:24:16.460 We've we've kind of changed with our older adults, but I love my oldest old because the things they say were actually a transmission of cultural imperatives, like the phrase, don't air your dirty laundry in public. 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.060 That was a cultural imperative not to go out and gossip about your family. 00:24:23.320 --> 00:24:25.900 There were a stitch in time saves nine. 00:24:25.995 --> 00:24:29.055 That was a cultural imperative that said get things done. 00:24:29.515 --> 00:24:33.695 So some of these phrases, I've collected them over the years for my for my clients. 00:24:33.995 --> 00:24:40.160 These phrases that older adults will say, especially the eighties and nineties crowd, were away. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:46.320 I think the culture transmitted its values, and they weren't just odd things older people say. 00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:48.580 There really is a value transmission in those. 00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:59.065 So is your do you think that most older people actually wanna want would love people to ask them those questions? 00:24:59.285 --> 00:25:00.665 Sounds like Mhmm. 00:25:01.125 --> 00:25:04.165 You know, when you when you about anything. 00:25:04.165 --> 00:25:04.325 Right? 00:25:04.325 --> 00:25:06.985 Well, tell me what what got you so interested in this, etcetera. 00:25:07.125 --> 00:25:12.940 What what's been you know, what's what do you think is the best decision you ever made in your life? 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:14.140 And get them to talk about this. 00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:14.620 I don't know. 00:25:14.620 --> 00:25:17.660 Just it seems like there'd be a lot of receptivity to that. 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:18.880 Or am I am I wrong? 00:25:19.260 --> 00:25:20.080 Oh, absolutely. 00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:32.235 Because it's a again, when we speak with people and we ask them for information, for for their advice, for their suggestions, for their their life value, we show value to them. 00:25:32.775 --> 00:25:50.760 I've heard some of the most amazing stories from older adults that I've worked with, their background, what they've experienced, how they've overcome difficulties, faith stories that are just stunning and wonderful, that showed how God has showed up in their life at times when there was an imperative. 00:25:51.555 --> 00:25:56.035 It just it's so it's so empowering to me to hear those. 00:25:56.035 --> 00:25:56.675 I go, wow. 00:25:56.675 --> 00:25:57.415 You know what? 00:25:58.035 --> 00:26:07.420 There's people have so many people have overcome so much, and when they tell you their faith story, I feel like it emboldens my faith. 00:26:08.120 --> 00:26:10.700 And you probably heard those things from older adults. 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:20.365 Sometimes it's advice givers, and sometimes the advice is, you know, maybe it doesn't apply, but my thing is, well, you know, that's a really great idea. 00:26:20.365 --> 00:26:25.825 Let me think about how I could potentially use that rather than, well, we don't do it that way anymore. 00:26:26.125 --> 00:26:26.445 Okay. 00:26:26.445 --> 00:26:28.770 Maybe we don't, but let me think about it. 00:26:28.930 --> 00:26:31.110 I keep thinking about my my uncle. 00:26:31.170 --> 00:26:32.550 He was a great storyteller. 00:26:32.770 --> 00:26:38.210 He'd always have people around the dinner table captivated, laughing, or Mhmm. 00:26:38.290 --> 00:26:42.415 Scolding him for telling stories that, wherever they went. 00:26:42.415 --> 00:26:48.895 But he but everyone listened to, you know, my uncle Bob telling stories because he had so many of them. 00:26:48.895 --> 00:26:50.755 He had he had a fantastic memory. 00:26:51.055 --> 00:26:57.860 And, you know, he could relate current current, current news to a story from the past. 00:26:57.860 --> 00:27:01.620 And it was very interesting, you know, how how they related. 00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:06.580 And so, storytelling, I think is a great way to start a communication, you know. 00:27:06.580 --> 00:27:12.005 It can teach lessons in spite of people's reluctance maybe to wanna be taught a lesson. 00:27:12.545 --> 00:27:14.965 Again, I think you'd mentioned this about special occasions. 00:27:15.265 --> 00:27:40.545 That's something that the multigenerational families can do or families when they gather, an older adult is, you know, we're celebrating Thanksgiving, or we're celebrating Christmas, or Easter, or what was what was the most memorable or the most special, Easter celebration your family did or Christmas or birthday or how did, you know, how did you how did your birthday celebration start when you were a little girl, you know, or a little boy? 00:27:41.725 --> 00:27:50.180 Those kinds of things that just relate to something that everybody everybody can relate to themselves is birthdays or holidays. 00:27:50.180 --> 00:28:01.535 And I have done a modality in my group techniques book about spiritual memories, and we talk about your spiritual legacy and what were the spiritual symbols that were important? 00:28:01.595 --> 00:28:06.335 Now those may vary depending on person's faith tradition, but everybody has them. 00:28:06.635 --> 00:28:08.655 And what are they, and why are they important? 00:28:09.755 --> 00:28:16.750 And then one of the favorites that I had one elder care home almost have a fit when I did this, and it turned out wonderful. 00:28:16.970 --> 00:28:18.090 And I've done it many times. 00:28:18.090 --> 00:28:19.870 I call it postcards from eternity. 00:28:20.330 --> 00:28:22.830 And this is after I've gotten to know a group really well. 00:28:23.050 --> 00:28:26.750 And I'll give them a large not not really a postcard, but postcard and say, okay. 00:28:28.145 --> 00:28:30.565 Let's talk about eternity. 00:28:31.585 --> 00:28:35.285 However you believe it's going to be, whatever your faith tradition is. 00:28:35.825 --> 00:28:38.325 And on the front, I want you to address it to somebody. 00:28:38.705 --> 00:28:40.945 Put somebody in mind that you'd like to communicate this. 00:28:40.945 --> 00:28:44.910 And on the neck backside, you know those old vacation postcards that say, hey. 00:28:44.910 --> 00:28:46.270 I'm having a great time in Florida. 00:28:46.270 --> 00:28:47.250 Wish you were here. 00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:49.010 Well, it's one of those. 00:28:49.550 --> 00:28:54.210 Think about if you are where you believe in your faith tradition, you will be in eternity. 00:28:55.045 --> 00:28:56.825 What message would you send back? 00:28:56.885 --> 00:28:58.025 Put it on a postcard. 00:28:59.445 --> 00:29:02.325 And at first, one director said, oh, that's gonna be depressing. 00:29:02.325 --> 00:29:02.725 I said, no. 00:29:02.725 --> 00:29:03.205 It's not. 00:29:03.205 --> 00:29:06.085 Because everyone in this age group is thinking about that. 00:29:06.085 --> 00:29:09.960 They're either thinking, what is next based on their faith tradition? 00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:15.160 Or if they have no faith tradition, they're really thinking about what's next, or is there a next? 00:29:15.860 --> 00:29:24.685 And this ended up being very meaningful to all my groups that I've done this with because they all everyone wants to communicate something to someone. 00:29:25.385 --> 00:29:30.765 And maybe they just have felt intimidated or ignored or not given the opportunity. 00:29:31.305 --> 00:29:41.460 And we need to give them we need to give older adults the opportunity to talk about what's next and why do they have the hope that's in them, and why is it important as opposed to, oh my gosh. 00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:42.500 They're getting close to dying. 00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:43.880 Let's don't talk about that. 00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:48.040 And as one older adult said to me, do they think we don't know that? 00:29:50.045 --> 00:29:52.685 Doctor Erwin, we we have just a few minutes here left. 00:29:52.685 --> 00:30:00.225 And, I was wondering, are there any particular resources that could be helpful to people who wanna learn more about this book's articles that you can recommend? 00:30:01.005 --> 00:30:06.580 Well, I think if if the if the family is dealing with dementia, definitely go to the Alzheimer's Association website. 00:30:06.580 --> 00:30:22.045 They have a lot of books and and not just books for you as caregivers, but what I love is they have complete list of books talking about what dementia and Alzheimer's is like written in the perspective of small children, medium grade children, high school, and upper. 00:30:23.705 --> 00:30:29.725 Consult with someone, you know, who has a counseling background and an understanding of families with older adults. 00:30:30.425 --> 00:30:36.160 It is a little bit different than how we deal with certain other ages, But, frankly, I find it easier than teenagers. 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:37.440 Teenagers are different too. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.860 So don't just look at it like, oh, I've got this older person, and nobody knows what to do with them. 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:51.285 Well, the first of all is you value them, and you love them, and you realize that God loves them too exactly as they are. 00:30:51.285 --> 00:30:56.025 It's not the same as they were twenty years ago, but that doesn't mean they lack value. 00:30:56.325 --> 00:31:01.865 And that's the greatest gift you can give to any older adult is to demonstrate that you value them. 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:04.060 I know I've asked you this before. 00:31:04.060 --> 00:31:05.180 Do you have a website? 00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:05.900 I'm I'm sorry. 00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:08.960 An email address that people can send you messages or questions? 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:09.900 Yes. 00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:12.700 Maybe you have a website, can ask you questions. 00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:14.880 Could you give that to us again? 00:31:15.225 --> 00:31:15.965 Yes, please. 00:31:16.025 --> 00:31:18.185 I would love to hear from any of our listeners. 00:31:18.185 --> 00:31:26.445 It's k e r w I n, my name, kerwin@divinemercy.edu. 00:31:26.985 --> 00:31:33.000 And I would be absolutely delighted to provide any information or resources for you. 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:39.400 Let's not give up on our older adults because by God's grace, that'll be you someday. 00:31:40.100 --> 00:31:44.500 Well, doctor Erwin, thank you so much for this very interesting, topic, this very interesting discussion. 00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:45.915 Father Charles, thank you. 00:31:46.795 --> 00:31:48.315 We look forward to talking with you soon. 00:31:48.315 --> 00:31:52.975 I don't know if you have any, last things you'd like to share, but, we've really run out of time. 00:31:53.435 --> 00:31:53.835 No. 00:31:53.835 --> 00:31:55.355 Just thank you very much. 00:31:55.355 --> 00:32:02.120 And, you know, I'm sure that this is just gonna add to what's already an amazing series, in our Flourish podcast. 00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:04.500 Have a wonderful day, doctor and father. 00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.520 Look forward to talking with you all again soon. 00:32:06.580 --> 00:32:07.320 Thank you.