WEBVTT 00:00:16.085 --> 00:00:22.325 So this is father Charles Sikorsky, president of Divine Mercy University, and I'm joined here today by father Mike Schmitz Yes. 00:00:22.485 --> 00:00:23.685 Who needs no introduction. 00:00:23.685 --> 00:00:25.605 And thank you so much for being with us, father Mike. 00:00:25.605 --> 00:00:26.245 Thank you, father. 00:00:26.245 --> 00:00:27.540 It's it's great to be here. 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:28.900 Question I have for you. 00:00:28.900 --> 00:00:37.860 Our mission is to integrate the best of science with the best of Catholic understanding of the person, and openness to God's will and the spirituality and so forth. 00:00:37.860 --> 00:00:41.800 We're forming psychologists and counselors at the master's and doctor level. 00:00:42.195 --> 00:00:47.095 Tell us a little bit from your perspective as a campus minister and all that you do for the church. 00:00:47.715 --> 00:00:50.295 What are some of the main issues where you see that could be important? 00:00:50.355 --> 00:00:50.515 Yeah. 00:00:50.515 --> 00:00:50.755 No. 00:00:50.755 --> 00:01:03.880 I well, I think you know, I I actually know of at least one, campus ministry on a state's campus that they have a, a psychologist or a therapist that is dedicated to the university or to to the campus ministry. 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:04.120 Mhmm. 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:19.635 Because they see so many people who have so many, struggles, so many, even just kind of this this, I think well, you know this, but was it maybe ten years ago that anxiety overtook depression as the number one diagnosed, mental health issue, on college age students? 00:01:19.775 --> 00:01:21.475 And I see that again and again. 00:01:21.535 --> 00:01:28.650 And there's a certain uncertainty, right, when it comes to looking at the future, looking at their own someone's own ability to to manage the future. 00:01:28.650 --> 00:01:34.630 I think there's a lot of fear that happens that's that's kind of, like, rips a lot of our young, young people. 00:01:35.330 --> 00:01:38.950 And then it translates into fear that groups are adults. 00:01:39.095 --> 00:01:39.335 Right? 00:01:39.335 --> 00:01:57.130 And so that I think that there's a a huge need in, a lot of campus ministers I work with or college university universities I work with for really, really good help to be able to like, even just that set that sense of how do I manage life, which I think is really, really it's it's one of those it's very basic thing. 00:01:57.130 --> 00:02:14.425 At the same time, you can understand how in a in a such constantly changing world with, with very little certainty, like, how these issues would dominate a person's life, the point where they feel debilitated. 00:02:15.125 --> 00:02:15.285 Yeah. 00:02:15.285 --> 00:02:17.205 I think too, going to college, you know Right. 00:02:17.365 --> 00:02:19.785 A lot of times they're away from home for the first time. 00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:22.240 They may no longer be the best student. 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:22.480 Right. 00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:26.320 And there's all this you add all these different things up and you see all kinds of struggles. 00:02:26.320 --> 00:02:27.240 And Right. 00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:35.245 We see it around the world around the country where, more and more, the the university council centers are full. 00:02:35.245 --> 00:02:35.485 Yeah. 00:02:35.485 --> 00:02:36.525 And so what do we do? 00:02:36.525 --> 00:02:37.725 And so what does yeah. 00:02:37.725 --> 00:02:38.205 I I I I'm sorry. 00:02:38.205 --> 00:02:42.525 I'm not meaning to interrupt you, but I I see that a lot where there's, I have a student and say, hey. 00:02:43.085 --> 00:02:45.745 I can get you in touch with some some therapists off campus. 00:02:45.965 --> 00:02:46.605 They're like, yeah. 00:02:46.605 --> 00:02:51.170 I'm on the waiting list to talk to the counselors on campus, and it's I can get in in a month. 00:02:51.170 --> 00:02:51.410 Mhmm. 00:02:51.410 --> 00:02:53.250 Or it's just the h the extent it's full. 00:02:53.250 --> 00:02:55.990 And then when they see them, it's like, you know, here's thirty minutes. 00:02:56.210 --> 00:02:58.050 I'll see you again another four weeks. 00:02:58.050 --> 00:02:58.690 It's like, well, hey. 00:02:58.690 --> 00:03:00.525 So I think there's there's a great need. 00:03:00.605 --> 00:03:06.925 And and there's no guarantee that they're gonna give values that are consistent with the Catholic faith or consistent with what you're what you're trying to do Yeah. 00:03:07.085 --> 00:03:09.645 And the Catholic, you know, the the Catholic chaplain's trying to do. 00:03:09.645 --> 00:03:23.130 Well, having that, I think that's one of the reasons My Mercy is so important is because having that, that that Catholic anthropology where it's actually I mean, you know this, but that that sense of, okay, so far made for love, what's love? 00:03:23.130 --> 00:03:24.750 Love is willing the good of the other. 00:03:24.890 --> 00:03:26.970 So these three we always do this with our students. 00:03:26.970 --> 00:03:27.610 We break it down. 00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:28.650 So willing means choosing. 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:31.265 To choose not just wanting it, but choosing the good. 00:03:31.405 --> 00:03:32.545 What's the good? 00:03:33.245 --> 00:03:37.345 They have to know what the other is, not just to know what the good is for them. 00:03:37.485 --> 00:03:37.645 Mhmm. 00:03:37.645 --> 00:03:44.490 And so at the Catholic anthropology that you'd have it to my mercy would be so critical because if you don't have it, then you don't know what the good is. 00:03:44.490 --> 00:03:44.730 Right. 00:03:44.730 --> 00:03:46.090 And therapy has a goal. 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:46.490 Yeah. 00:03:46.490 --> 00:03:54.090 But if you're not sure what the good of the person is, like, you're you're gonna go I mean, you're the hamster on the on the cycling around all day. 00:03:54.090 --> 00:03:54.410 Right? 00:03:54.410 --> 00:03:55.770 You're not or or worse. 00:03:55.770 --> 00:03:56.090 Right? 00:03:56.090 --> 00:04:02.285 We see it all the time now with different set questions of sexuality and so forth that You're affirming something that just can't be affirmed. 00:04:02.285 --> 00:04:03.645 It's not gonna lead to a health. 00:04:03.645 --> 00:04:04.945 It's not gonna lead to thriving. 00:04:05.005 --> 00:04:05.965 So here's a question. 00:04:05.965 --> 00:04:07.425 What what's the goal of therapy? 00:04:08.125 --> 00:04:10.350 This is this is me asking the question for my own sake. 00:04:10.430 --> 00:04:10.670 Sure. 00:04:10.670 --> 00:04:15.630 The goal of therapy is really, ultimately, is to help people become who God made them to be. 00:04:15.630 --> 00:04:18.110 To make them the best version of themselves, however you wanna say it. 00:04:18.110 --> 00:04:18.350 Yeah. 00:04:18.350 --> 00:04:19.870 Which ultimately is is holiness. 00:04:19.870 --> 00:04:20.110 Right? 00:04:20.110 --> 00:04:21.150 God made us Right. 00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:23.805 For him to love him and love others. 00:04:24.045 --> 00:04:29.485 So and so many psychological barriers, are barrier really barriers to love. 00:04:29.485 --> 00:04:33.805 They interfere with our ability to love God and our ability to fully love others. 00:04:33.805 --> 00:04:48.370 And so what we're trying to do in therapy, we're trying to do it through counseling is to eliminate or diminish those barriers as much as possible to let God's actions, be primary and and and and allow people to become who they're supposed to be. 00:04:48.370 --> 00:04:49.010 That's so good. 00:04:49.010 --> 00:04:52.425 I was talking with, sister Miriam James, if you know sister Miriam James. 00:04:52.665 --> 00:04:55.065 She works a lot with a lot of healing the whole person. 00:04:55.065 --> 00:04:55.225 Right. 00:04:55.225 --> 00:04:56.365 We talked about shoots. 00:04:57.065 --> 00:04:59.965 At one point, we're talking about what is it what is it to be healed? 00:05:00.745 --> 00:05:07.400 And she was saying something that, you just said it in such a unique way too because she said, we sometimes think that to be healed is to be fixed. 00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:08.520 Like, I no longer have a problem. 00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:09.820 I no longer have a wound. 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:13.400 And what I hear you saying is that we're gonna address the wound. 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:22.525 We're gonna address that, that psyche that needs help, but the goal might not be, now there's no wound anymore. 00:05:22.825 --> 00:05:25.945 The goal might be, actually, in the midst of the wound, how do you love? 00:05:25.945 --> 00:05:28.945 Like, in the midst of the wound, how do you begin is that accurate, or am I am I mistaken? 00:05:29.225 --> 00:05:29.865 Accurate there. 00:05:29.865 --> 00:05:30.025 Right? 00:05:30.025 --> 00:05:31.305 And you think about Saint Paul. 00:05:31.305 --> 00:05:31.625 Right? 00:05:31.625 --> 00:05:32.425 The thorn in the flesh. 00:05:32.425 --> 00:05:32.585 Right. 00:05:32.585 --> 00:05:32.910 Yeah. 00:05:32.990 --> 00:05:35.150 Beg God three times, and God says, no. 00:05:35.150 --> 00:05:36.030 My grace is enough. 00:05:36.030 --> 00:05:40.610 And in certain ways, it's mysterious, but God wants us to carry certain crosses. 00:05:40.670 --> 00:05:41.150 Right. 00:05:41.630 --> 00:05:53.265 Now we should try to do whatever we can on a human level to get rid of the obstacles, I would say, but but, yes, we're not all we're never gonna be fully fixed because we're subject to this thing called original sin that's always around. 00:05:53.265 --> 00:05:53.505 Right. 00:05:53.505 --> 00:05:55.585 It's always gonna be rearing its ugly head. 00:05:55.585 --> 00:05:57.365 So, yeah. 00:05:57.650 --> 00:05:58.210 That makes sense. 00:05:58.210 --> 00:06:01.810 You know, there was, years ago, I maybe recounted the story before. 00:06:01.810 --> 00:06:04.550 There was a we have a women's household on our campus. 00:06:05.330 --> 00:06:09.830 And a number of the the young women at that time, they, you know, wrestled with different psychological issues. 00:06:09.970 --> 00:06:15.795 But, at one point, they had this crisis, and the crisis was one of them was reading a book about the life of Saint Catherine of Siena. 00:06:15.795 --> 00:06:17.795 But it wasn't about the life of Saint Catherine of Siena. 00:06:17.795 --> 00:06:28.030 It was someone had proposed the idea that here at Catherine of Siena died at such a young age, and she did such serious penances because she actually had an eating disorder. 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:31.530 And so she had some body dysmorphia and because of that, she had eating disorder. 00:06:31.530 --> 00:06:32.970 And because of that, that's what killed her. 00:06:32.970 --> 00:06:35.770 That's what led her to having a a a a shortened life. 00:06:35.770 --> 00:06:41.775 And they, like, they needed to have this family house meeting because they were so in turmoil over, like, wait a second. 00:06:41.775 --> 00:06:44.095 But she's, like, Saint Catherine of Siena. 00:06:44.095 --> 00:06:45.055 She's a great saint. 00:06:45.055 --> 00:06:45.555 Amazing. 00:06:46.015 --> 00:06:47.375 How could she have this thing? 00:06:47.375 --> 00:06:49.475 How if this contributed to her death? 00:06:49.900 --> 00:06:51.660 I mean, I talked to my spiritual director about this. 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:51.980 Mhmm. 00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:53.420 And he's, he's a hermit. 00:06:53.420 --> 00:06:57.680 He's, been living in Northwoods Of Minnesota for years, but also, like, very genius man. 00:06:57.980 --> 00:07:00.160 And I said, father, what do you think about this? 00:07:00.220 --> 00:07:02.945 And he was like he said, a, well, there's no evidence for that. 00:07:02.945 --> 00:07:04.625 Like, that's one thing that you're able to realize. 00:07:04.625 --> 00:07:05.505 There's no evidence for that. 00:07:05.505 --> 00:07:09.425 There's someone reading back into her life and putting their stuff on her. 00:07:09.425 --> 00:07:14.805 But he said, but, b, if that was the case, so? 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:17.060 Like, what do you mean so? 00:07:17.060 --> 00:07:21.640 Well, that means that God made her a saint in the midst of her wound. 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:43.150 Like, that that sense of and again, probably not true because it's just someone again writing in 1990, But here's God who makes can can, like you said, to make all this saints the chapel dedicated to different saints or pages of different mental health disorders, you know, who had these problems and struggled these problems, and but they're saints. 00:07:43.150 --> 00:07:43.390 Yeah. 00:07:43.390 --> 00:07:49.070 And so there's always that hope, you know, not not that we're gonna live in misery, but but we can carry our crosses. 00:07:49.070 --> 00:07:52.334 We have a father who loves us, and he's gonna he's gonna be with us Yeah. 00:07:52.494 --> 00:07:54.174 And helping people to understand that. 00:07:54.174 --> 00:07:54.674 Yeah.