WEBVTT 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.940 Welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast sponsored by Divine Mercy University. 00:00:14.485 --> 00:00:20.185 My name is Thomas Kronquist, and I'm the cohost with father Charles Sikorsky, the president of Divine Mercy University. 00:00:20.485 --> 00:00:22.025 Father Charles, how are you today? 00:00:22.645 --> 00:00:26.025 I'm doing fine, Tom, and I'm really looking forward to this podcast. 00:00:26.325 --> 00:00:29.790 And, tell us a little bit about what we're gonna talk about. 00:00:30.090 --> 00:00:32.890 Well, we have a great podcast scheduled for this afternoon. 00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:42.830 We'll be talking with doctor Frederica Vyvletschka, the director of our, counseling program, on the very important topic, addictions and substance abuse. 00:00:43.435 --> 00:00:46.895 Doctor Vyvletschka, welcome to the Call to Flourish podcast. 00:00:47.835 --> 00:00:48.575 Thank you. 00:00:48.635 --> 00:00:50.095 I'm happy to be here. 00:00:50.715 --> 00:00:56.715 Can you tell us about your background and how you, became involved with addictions and substance abuse? 00:00:56.715 --> 00:00:59.510 It's a it's a huge problem, we hear a lot about. 00:00:59.510 --> 00:01:02.090 Can you, tell us how you became involved with this? 00:01:03.670 --> 00:01:04.150 Sure. 00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:10.185 So I actually grew up in a family where addiction was prominent. 00:01:10.805 --> 00:01:20.905 And then when I was a sophomore in college, I had to go to my family member's family week at a treatment center. 00:01:21.045 --> 00:01:29.480 And, essentially, what they do there is they bring the family in, and you talk to the person who's an addict or an alcoholic about how their use affected you. 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:32.500 And when I was there, I said this is what I wanna do with my life. 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:36.280 I wanna be I wanna do whatever that lady's doing, and it was the counselor. 00:01:36.835 --> 00:01:55.700 And so when I got my master's in counseling, I applied at treatment centers for my practicum and internship, and that's where it started and kind of went to different treatment centers and had a private practice for a while, and that's sort of been my focus ever since my specialty. 00:01:56.720 --> 00:01:57.040 Wow. 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:03.505 And then now you're now you're forming new counselors in their counseling program, which is growing quite a bit. 00:02:04.445 --> 00:02:06.845 Maybe just give us a little brief, intro. 00:02:06.845 --> 00:02:09.905 How's how's the program going and and how are the students doing? 00:02:10.525 --> 00:02:14.445 Program is growing immensely, and the students are great. 00:02:14.445 --> 00:02:18.240 We have a I feel very blessed to work with the students we have. 00:02:18.620 --> 00:02:22.960 It's like we get this special group of people every year, every semester actually. 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:30.400 And so the program looks, promising, and we are working on a CACREP accreditation. 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:32.825 There's lots of really neat things happening. 00:02:34.005 --> 00:02:35.225 Quite a few students. 00:02:35.525 --> 00:02:38.405 Like, we're I think we're around 250. 00:02:38.405 --> 00:02:39.225 Is that right? 00:02:40.005 --> 00:02:40.505 Yes. 00:02:40.805 --> 00:02:41.125 Yes. 00:02:41.125 --> 00:02:44.885 And we started with not 250, so it's six years ago. 00:02:44.885 --> 00:02:46.505 So it's been fast. 00:02:47.570 --> 00:02:47.970 Yeah. 00:02:47.970 --> 00:02:56.550 And and I know they they learn, you know, they learn the skills to help those with addictions and, and, substance abuse and so forth. 00:02:57.010 --> 00:03:01.270 Maybe you start just telling us a little bit of what what in general, what is an addiction? 00:03:02.055 --> 00:03:04.855 And and what makes yeah. 00:03:04.855 --> 00:03:07.675 Just what what are the characteristics of that? 00:03:08.295 --> 00:03:14.955 The easy, short ex explanation is continued use despite negative consequences. 00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:21.620 So I tell my students because event they usually always have, well, how do you know if it's an addiction? 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:22.260 How do you know? 00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:28.040 And I'd say, well, what is their what is their life look like when they're drinking or using drugs? 00:03:28.420 --> 00:03:29.640 Is it good or bad? 00:03:29.825 --> 00:03:34.085 And that's that's typically how you would know if someone's an addict or an alcoholic. 00:03:34.225 --> 00:03:37.285 That being said, you can always use the DSM. 00:03:37.505 --> 00:03:44.930 It's our manual for having to know what the criteria are on criterion are that fit fit the diagnosis. 00:03:45.310 --> 00:03:50.610 But, essentially, I always say continued use of a substance despite the negative consequence. 00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:54.370 Continued use despite the negative consequences. 00:03:54.590 --> 00:03:55.090 Okay. 00:03:57.115 --> 00:04:08.315 Is, I would imagine alcohol is one of the biggest substance abuses alcoholism is one of the biggest substance abuses, diagnoses out there. 00:04:08.315 --> 00:04:08.815 Yes? 00:04:09.660 --> 00:04:16.780 I think they're all pretty prevalent, but alcoholism is I would say it's the one in which people say, well, that's not me. 00:04:16.780 --> 00:04:17.920 I'm not an alcoholic. 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:20.240 I don't live under a bridge, and I'm not homeless. 00:04:20.700 --> 00:04:25.545 And in my experience, it's it's it's a difficult one to say, no. 00:04:25.545 --> 00:04:29.485 This is a problem because it is culturally acceptable. 00:04:30.185 --> 00:04:37.165 And and so it's very hard for people to get to a point people who have a problem with it to say they have a problem with it. 00:04:38.130 --> 00:04:43.830 And it's so easy to to acquire alcohol, whereas other drugs might be more difficult. 00:04:44.210 --> 00:04:44.710 Right? 00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:47.170 Yes. 00:04:47.170 --> 00:04:58.295 I think on on some level, any addiction, no matter what it is, there's a there's a level of secrecy that's involved even if you are able to gain access to that substance legally. 00:04:58.675 --> 00:05:11.310 There for every person that comes in and says I have a problem with x, y, or z, there's some level of secrecy that they have to engage in in order to continue their use even when it's alcohol. 00:05:12.090 --> 00:05:16.750 Can we drill down a little bit more on, you know, continued use despite negative consequences? 00:05:16.810 --> 00:05:18.905 So because I I yeah. 00:05:18.905 --> 00:05:24.205 It it makes total sense, right, that someone who might have a drinking problem doesn't wanna admit it. 00:05:24.745 --> 00:05:29.725 If you're a loved one, like, what what kinds of things when is it too much? 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:34.540 And when would you or when should you at least bring this up with someone? 00:05:34.540 --> 00:05:36.880 Like, what kinds of signs are you? 00:05:37.100 --> 00:05:44.720 So I always tell people some people say, well, what's the, you know, what is the defining moment? 00:05:45.435 --> 00:06:09.390 And I say, well, a person who is going to go down the path of a of a of a dependence on a substance will typically have an experience in their life where they use the substance, and they have a negative consequence, and there is a decision made there on some level to have denial minimize, rationalize what happened. 00:06:09.770 --> 00:06:13.595 And it's at that point they step over into dependence. 00:06:13.655 --> 00:06:22.955 Now that's that's the emotional, psychological part to it, I should say, and but that is also connected to an increase in tolerance. 00:06:23.175 --> 00:06:28.075 So let's say the person drinks too much, gets in the car and drives, they get a DWI. 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:30.170 The person that goes, wow. 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:35.870 I probably should not drink and drive, and I had this many beers, and I'm not gonna do that again. 00:06:36.170 --> 00:06:44.745 That's a person who's telling the truth and choosing a different path versus the person that says, well, everybody gets a DWI. 00:06:44.885 --> 00:06:45.625 That's normal. 00:06:46.005 --> 00:06:48.165 Joe got a DWI when he's 16. 00:06:48.165 --> 00:06:48.985 He's fine. 00:06:49.285 --> 00:06:56.585 That's the person that's sort of creeping more towards a substance use disorder because they're willing to rationalize something that's pretty bad. 00:06:57.110 --> 00:07:09.270 When the person begins to rationalize that thing, they have to have an increase in tolerance, so they have to use more to get the same result of euphoria that they feel when they use. 00:07:09.270 --> 00:07:15.305 So the people on the outside will notice this person's drinking more. 00:07:15.305 --> 00:07:19.805 This person this person is not only drinking, but they've started to engage in other drugs. 00:07:20.105 --> 00:07:21.005 That's a problem. 00:07:21.385 --> 00:07:28.205 So those would be that would be sort of probably the first observable sign someone might see, especially someone close to the person. 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:35.440 And so what now all the there's so many different addictions out there, laundry list. 00:07:36.380 --> 00:07:45.685 What are some commonality you you had your basic definition of the, you know, the continued use without a negative consequence and then sort of this rationalization. 00:07:46.465 --> 00:07:52.645 And would that be something similar, say, if it's, obviously, drugs, I think, would be closer to alcohol, it would seem. 00:07:53.025 --> 00:08:00.530 But things like, you know, phone addiction or gambling addiction or, you know, so many other kinds of problems. 00:08:02.510 --> 00:08:04.850 Is it all does it usually work that way? 00:08:05.710 --> 00:08:09.730 I would say that it it does, but it looks different. 00:08:10.015 --> 00:08:16.435 And on some level, you have to also notice how much of how much of my time is this taking up. 00:08:16.655 --> 00:08:19.375 And so that is another key aspect of any addiction. 00:08:19.375 --> 00:08:21.855 How much of my time am I spending on the phone? 00:08:21.855 --> 00:08:27.740 How much of my time am I spending worrying about how much I'm gonna exercise? 00:08:27.740 --> 00:08:32.080 So someone with an exercise addiction or how much how much of my time is spent. 00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:42.185 They call in with with the progression of a substance addiction, alcohol, drugs, the focus on how to obtain that substance. 00:08:42.645 --> 00:08:51.525 So how that would look for exercise or for food or for, you know, phone is how there's a focus. 00:08:51.525 --> 00:08:59.690 There's a significant amount of time spent trying to acquire the thing they're they want to the point where it's taking over their whole life. 00:08:59.690 --> 00:09:02.750 So they're thinking about it when they wake up to when they go to bed. 00:09:03.850 --> 00:09:08.350 Are there common, underlying causes for, addictions? 00:09:08.410 --> 00:09:10.585 Or maybe the causes are myriad. 00:09:11.205 --> 00:09:20.105 I alcohol, I think often stress, is is a cause for for, maybe alcohol abuse. 00:09:20.725 --> 00:09:26.000 But are there do you look, in your counseling, do you look for the underlying causes? 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.420 And and and when you do, what what do you find? 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:38.025 I found that a lot of clients that I worked with that had a substance use disorder, there usually was a genetic predisposition somewhere. 00:09:38.325 --> 00:09:42.665 So you would go down the line, and they'd say, I remember this, my grandfather. 00:09:43.365 --> 00:09:46.565 We've got a cousin who's went to treatment. 00:09:46.565 --> 00:09:51.020 We've got a and it was pretty close in regards to family. 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:56.680 So so meaning that if if it was a cousin, it wasn't a distant cousin. 00:09:56.680 --> 00:09:59.340 It was, you know, your aunt's kid. 00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:17.395 And so there usually was a a genetic predisposition, and it'd be interesting to hear the stories, excuse me, of people talking about who have a genetic predisposition, talking about their first drink or drug use. 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:26.120 The way they described it was significantly different than someone who doesn't have a problem with alcohol or drugs describing their first drink. 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:32.475 It it it was very different, and I'm someone that came from a family where there was alcoholism. 00:10:32.935 --> 00:10:37.975 I never had a problem, and I was able to share, well, this is what makes you a little different. 00:10:37.975 --> 00:10:39.655 This is you're viewing it this way. 00:10:39.655 --> 00:10:42.715 You can recall your first drink and how it made you feel. 00:10:43.095 --> 00:10:51.690 And people that are normal drinkers, they recall it, but it's not a prominent memory that they kind of fantasize about in a sense. 00:10:51.910 --> 00:11:05.525 So then on top of that, there's there's sort of this cycle of the use is the drug and alcohol use tends to help the person avoid some sort of pain or suffering. 00:11:05.665 --> 00:11:08.165 So I'm gonna use to avoid feeling. 00:11:08.705 --> 00:11:12.065 It could be any feeling, but a lot of times, it's pain and suffering. 00:11:12.065 --> 00:11:23.260 But some clients I had, they were very anxious, and the substance they use would help them with their anxiety, and then they became addicted to the substance, which in turn made their anxiety worse. 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:31.425 You mentioned, the tolerance levels go up, and then you look for a stronger or more quantity and stuff. 00:11:31.725 --> 00:11:36.065 So that does do you find that alcohol can can then switch into drugs? 00:11:36.685 --> 00:11:47.710 And among the drugs, you know, I've heard, you know, even with drugs, that, for instance, marijuana now being legalized in a lot of places that can be a gateway to more serious things. 00:11:50.410 --> 00:11:52.330 Is that is that something to worry about? 00:11:52.330 --> 00:11:57.755 And and, you know, and, how how can we help people who are in that kinda situation? 00:11:59.255 --> 00:12:04.955 I would say you get two different types of, addictions. 00:12:05.255 --> 00:12:14.370 So you you I I would have clients that focus solely on one, and they didn't they tried everything, and they liked just the one substance. 00:12:14.370 --> 00:12:17.330 And then you would have clients that had something else. 00:12:17.330 --> 00:12:20.150 They started with alcohol and moved on to marijuana. 00:12:20.290 --> 00:12:24.275 Then it then went to then went to cocaine, then to heroin. 00:12:24.415 --> 00:12:43.540 And the big thing was that because you have the propensity for a substance use disorder, even if you're only gonna choose one versus the person who did everything, the the possibility of you going to another substance thinking for example, the person that just likes alcohol. 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:48.820 They get sober thinking, well, I can smoke pot because I just like alcohol. 00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:54.405 They have a higher chance of becoming addicted to pot because of their track record with alcohol. 00:12:54.785 --> 00:13:00.885 And so I had, you know, I had clients who were shooting heroin going, well, I can get sober and drink. 00:13:01.105 --> 00:13:05.940 They said there's a real good chance you're gonna relapse if you if you choose to drink. 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:10.260 Now some people could do it, but most of the time, I would see those clients back. 00:13:10.260 --> 00:13:12.520 They were sober for a period of time. 00:13:12.580 --> 00:13:16.040 They started drinking alcohol even though their drug of choice was heroin. 00:13:16.420 --> 00:13:19.720 And within a month, they were back to using heroin. 00:13:20.635 --> 00:13:33.055 With marijuana being legalized more and more across the country, are you seeing an uptick in, marijuana addiction, and and what does that look like, especially in young people? 00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:39.230 I think that there's kind of this skewed understanding of what a marijuana addiction looks like. 00:13:39.530 --> 00:13:50.375 And I also think that we are gonna see it, and we're not gonna thank goodness for counselors because I don't like saying it this way, but it is job security. 00:13:50.435 --> 00:13:59.875 The mayor legalizing marijuana is job security for counselors because it is a highly addictive drug, and now they're putting other things in it. 00:13:59.875 --> 00:14:04.670 And it's almost we're kind of at a point with drugs where there's so many things in it. 00:14:04.670 --> 00:14:08.990 There's it's just a different level of addiction, to be completely honest with you. 00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:15.025 And so people that might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition, they become addicted. 00:14:15.025 --> 00:14:21.205 And it's, I mean, it's a problem whether and I always go back to, you know, it doesn't matter if it's legal or not legal. 00:14:21.585 --> 00:14:24.865 If you have a propensity to addiction, you're gonna become an addict. 00:14:24.865 --> 00:14:29.525 And then on top of that, all the stuff they're putting into it, it's sort of playing you're playing with fire. 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:34.940 And when you do that and so, yeah, what you you brought marijuana as being highly addictive. 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:45.340 Or would that be more because there's a lot of, lot of discussion about this out there in the world, and it's legal, and, oh, it's no different than beer. 00:14:46.175 --> 00:14:48.355 Obviously, you can you can become an alcoholic. 00:14:48.815 --> 00:14:51.315 Obviously, you can do a lot of damage with drinking. 00:14:51.935 --> 00:15:00.515 But is is there a difference in in the, you know, propensity to get addicted to it between those drugs, and how does that how does that work? 00:15:01.060 --> 00:15:03.560 Like, there's one more dangerous solution, I guess, is my question. 00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:05.140 I would say no. 00:15:05.140 --> 00:15:11.640 I'm sort of of the camp of some people just choose a certain substance just because of their temperament. 00:15:12.020 --> 00:15:17.795 And but I think because marijuana is much more is is legal now, it's available. 00:15:18.415 --> 00:15:20.755 People think it's not gonna cause a problem. 00:15:22.495 --> 00:15:26.435 I think we're there's just more people becoming becoming addicted to it. 00:15:26.495 --> 00:15:34.735 And I also think that the idea that, well, it's legal, so it's not gonna hurt you or it's natural, it's not gonna hurt you. 00:15:34.735 --> 00:15:37.926 I've I've had clients go into psychosis smoking pot. 00:15:37.926 --> 00:15:40.054 I mean, it's pretty dangerous drug. 00:15:40.054 --> 00:15:46.045 Now I come there's kind of different camps with people with counselors within substance use. 00:15:46.045 --> 00:15:48.445 Some people don't think it's that big a deal. 00:15:48.445 --> 00:15:55.745 I come from the position that if you have a problem with the substance, you're probably gonna have a problem with other substances. 00:15:55.885 --> 00:15:58.830 So you might wanna avoid that. 00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:00.430 Just my suggestion. 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:03.130 But, you know, you get a different counselor on here. 00:16:03.130 --> 00:16:05.630 They might tell you something differently in that regard. 00:16:06.170 --> 00:16:10.510 I let go of the marijuana legalization fight. 00:16:10.835 --> 00:16:13.395 I just thought, you know, it's gonna become legal at some point. 00:16:13.395 --> 00:16:23.655 We're gonna have there's gonna be an increase in people who have this problem, and we're probably gonna see a lot more other issues come along with it, and it's just sort of how it's going. 00:16:24.680 --> 00:16:32.780 Well, we've seen that too with so many different ones now, with technology and with, you know, sports gambling now becoming more legal. 00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:43.335 I think there's been an exponential increase in sexual and porn addiction with the Internet and, just becoming everything's at our fingertips these days. 00:16:43.635 --> 00:16:51.415 And I guess the thing is it's it's it's it's it sounds like maybe we could be say or may I know you may not agree with me. 00:16:51.555 --> 00:17:00.960 It's more about the person's habits and that you can fall into if you, you know, if you don't fall into one, you might fall into another. 00:17:01.260 --> 00:17:02.220 It's not Mhmm. 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:05.360 Obviously, we gotta be careful about having everything at our fingertips. 00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:11.965 But I guess the real thing is is forming, you know, habits that will protect us from that. 00:17:11.965 --> 00:17:15.505 And, you know, counseling can be helped once a person has an addiction. 00:17:15.645 --> 00:17:18.765 What what are some good things to prevent people from getting there in the first place? 00:17:18.765 --> 00:17:23.500 Like, maybe when you're raising your children, and, do you have any any advice there? 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:48.205 You know, I think that it's I have young children, and when we go out and see people, I'm sort of shocked at how willing people are to let their children just have a phone or have an iPad because of to me, I see this thing that is access to anything. 00:17:48.345 --> 00:17:50.125 It it's literally anything. 00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:59.160 And then on top of that, there's so much happening in your brain as you're developing that how could the how could you not get addicted? 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:04.760 It's it's you're essentially setting up your child to become addicted to that thing. 00:18:05.025 --> 00:18:08.225 And so I think that as parents and it is hard. 00:18:08.225 --> 00:18:14.165 I'm not gonna I I see the temptation of going, just watch something for five minutes so I can breathe. 00:18:14.545 --> 00:18:15.365 I get it. 00:18:15.585 --> 00:18:19.685 But you have to teach your children how to be bored. 00:18:20.020 --> 00:18:25.000 That's a big lesson in our home is learn to be bored because it will save you. 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:32.900 Learning how to deal with boredom is gonna is going to prevent you, hopefully, from choosing things that can hurt you. 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:34.360 Now there's no guarantee. 00:18:35.055 --> 00:18:39.475 Any parent can teach their child anything, and the child has free will. 00:18:39.775 --> 00:18:42.655 And so, also, as parents, we have to recognize that. 00:18:42.655 --> 00:18:51.320 But I think the biggest thing is teaching your children how to be bored, use their imaginations, and not rely on something that's gonna hook them immediately. 00:18:51.540 --> 00:18:53.620 I mean, it's it's sort of meant to do that. 00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:56.200 The phone and the iPad is meant to keep your attention. 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:01.640 And so limiting that and teaching your children how to do other things. 00:19:02.165 --> 00:19:02.325 Yeah. 00:19:02.325 --> 00:19:03.845 Now how do you teach them to be bored? 00:19:03.845 --> 00:19:07.525 I mean, you know, we, my parents, oh, go read a book. 00:19:07.525 --> 00:19:09.445 And I don't wanna read a book, you know, when I was a kid. 00:19:09.445 --> 00:19:12.745 But, so we'd watch TV or do something, or we'd play sports. 00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:17.060 But now, you know, I'll go you know, you got the video game. 00:19:17.060 --> 00:19:38.405 It's just another because I I think what what you're talking about being bored, it's to protect against these adrenaline rushes that you get from clicks and from playing the game and and and all these exciting things that are going your your brain just, I guess, can't keep up with it, and it just starts to you get hooked on the adrenaline. 00:19:39.025 --> 00:19:45.110 I think a good example, and this is something we do, in my family is we have kids in sports. 00:19:45.810 --> 00:19:56.195 And we have kid and and and so when we go to SportsCanes and the younger kids cannot play in the sports, they are asked to watch the game or play. 00:19:56.255 --> 00:19:58.435 We don't bring something to entertain them. 00:19:58.495 --> 00:20:03.135 They're there to do something with us as a family, and it it sort of starts there. 00:20:03.135 --> 00:20:04.015 It's little things. 00:20:04.015 --> 00:20:04.815 It's not, okay. 00:20:04.815 --> 00:20:06.515 Go be bored and figure it out. 00:20:06.815 --> 00:20:18.900 But there's this there's this idea, I think, that we have to constantly a, you know, a possible addiction. 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:24.760 If you have to be constantly entertained, that's gonna be a problem when you're 18, 20, 25. 00:20:25.085 --> 00:20:27.325 So just little things in your life. 00:20:27.325 --> 00:20:41.860 If if there's an opportunity to be doing something with your family, watching a family member contributing, do that instead of how can I keep them off my back, how can I keep them entertained so I don't have to constantly worry about them? 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:42.800 Things like that. 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:44.720 And it's I'm not saying it's easy. 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:45.540 It's hard. 00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:56.755 Going back to marijuana for just a minute, is it true that, do you see it that marijuana leads to, stronger drugs, other drug addictions? 00:20:56.815 --> 00:20:57.935 I think you've mentioned that. 00:20:57.935 --> 00:21:13.140 I just want to you know, is that is that a good, talking point or a good argument against, the legalization of marijuana and and keeping it out of the hands of children or young people, does it lead to the use of harder drugs? 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:15.460 I think it does. 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:24.395 I my experience has been it opens the door for for any and it's not just because it's because of the drug. 00:21:24.395 --> 00:21:30.555 It's if you think about it, it comes with a whole culture around it, and that culture is a drug culture. 00:21:30.555 --> 00:21:33.915 So how would you not get introduced to other things? 00:21:33.915 --> 00:21:44.030 That's that's sort of what I've always noticed is, well, I just was doing smoking pot every now and then, but my my friend, who's the drug dealer, also does this, and he thought that I should do it. 00:21:44.030 --> 00:21:46.510 And so I figured, well, pot's not a big deal. 00:21:46.510 --> 00:21:47.650 I could do this thing. 00:21:48.025 --> 00:21:51.625 And and so it's sort of it's environmental too. 00:21:51.625 --> 00:22:07.860 And and I think that if we even legalizing it, you know, we I think as a as a culture, we can say we can see that alcohol is widely avail available, and there are people that have a problem with it, and we can find those people. 00:22:08.080 --> 00:22:10.320 Most people can go, they've got a problem with alcohol. 00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:20.005 Now not every we I I would say kind of the general public can't point to everybody who might have a problem, but we can say that person probably has a problem with alcohol. 00:22:20.305 --> 00:22:23.285 Look at who they're surrounded they're surrounded by. 00:22:23.585 --> 00:22:32.560 People who are addicts and alcoholics tend to surround themselves with people who have worse addictions because, hey. 00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:34.000 I'm not as bad as that person. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.860 It's sort of a it's a defense mechanism. 00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:40.500 So what would follow is harder drugs. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:48.020 You know, in treating these people, I mean, sometimes this could be, you know, I guess, trauma related or some experience. 00:22:49.095 --> 00:22:52.555 But there can also be, like, loneliness and and so forth. 00:22:52.775 --> 00:23:01.095 To to what degree do strong relationships and friendships help someone who's struggling to get over this, in addition, of course, to counseling? 00:23:01.095 --> 00:23:07.330 What are what are some of the things that really can help a person who, who's who has an addiction? 00:23:07.870 --> 00:23:14.770 So I come from a family of AA, and I all the treatment centers I worked in were 12 step oriented. 00:23:14.830 --> 00:23:17.655 There's there's a lot of it it works. 00:23:18.135 --> 00:23:20.535 Now there's a lot of people that say it doesn't work for everyone. 00:23:20.535 --> 00:23:21.095 I agree. 00:23:21.095 --> 00:23:23.415 There's not a one size fits all. 00:23:23.415 --> 00:23:28.475 What I have found is that AA works because there's a community involved. 00:23:29.175 --> 00:23:42.050 There's people there to help support the person in flourishing, who are gonna tell the truth in a kind way most of the time, and for the goal for for the purpose of that person getting better. 00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:47.925 And what a requirement of being an AA is admit you have a problem and be of service to others. 00:23:47.925 --> 00:23:49.285 And I think that's key. 00:23:49.285 --> 00:23:55.625 And I think it's key in all pathology is being of service to others is helpful in flourishing. 00:23:55.685 --> 00:23:58.345 It is highly correlated with flourishing. 00:23:59.765 --> 00:24:07.900 So you hear a lot about, opioid addiction, lately and, the consequence the horrible consequences of that. 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:17.180 What are some of the other drugs, especially with young people, that they're getting into, the harder drugs than they're becoming addicted to? 00:24:17.345 --> 00:24:18.065 Oh my gosh. 00:24:18.065 --> 00:24:19.265 I feel like it hasn't changed. 00:24:19.265 --> 00:24:24.965 But fentanyl, if I'm saying that correctly, I always say it wrong, that is one that is everywhere now. 00:24:25.105 --> 00:24:37.090 And it's it's very scary to the point where the it's it's it's, the way it's coming into the country, the way it's being kind of trafficked everywhere is quite scary. 00:24:37.090 --> 00:24:38.150 It's it's everywhere. 00:24:38.290 --> 00:24:47.625 But, you know, I think that we forget the fact that it looks the same, but it's different. 00:24:47.625 --> 00:24:52.505 It's different drugs now, but the this has been a problem for a very long time. 00:24:52.505 --> 00:24:55.645 It's just there's just new drugs available. 00:24:56.025 --> 00:25:03.200 And there's a new I don't wanna say fad drug, but there's one that becomes more popular that's sort of this revolving door, essentially. 00:25:03.820 --> 00:25:11.360 We hear a lot about fentanyl, and I I confess I don't know that much about it, but you hear a lot about it in the news, it coming over the border. 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:21.525 What what what are the effects or what are the symptoms of somebody who has a a fentanyl addiction, and and where would where where do young people get that? 00:25:21.525 --> 00:25:23.365 Is that mixed in with other things? 00:25:23.365 --> 00:25:26.345 And and what I understand it's very, very powerful. 00:25:26.965 --> 00:25:28.425 What are the effects of that? 00:25:29.060 --> 00:25:34.500 You know, it's very powerful to the point where you don't you'd the person might not even know they've used it. 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:41.140 They it's been laced in all different drugs, and I think that's the the so it's not about what are symptoms of fentanyl. 00:25:41.140 --> 00:25:42.500 It's what are symptoms of addiction. 00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:49.865 Because at this point in age and in that culture, the drugs are laced with everything. 00:25:50.245 --> 00:25:53.145 And so the question is, what are the symptoms of addiction? 00:25:53.205 --> 00:25:54.825 And that and you start there. 00:25:55.125 --> 00:26:08.210 And then educating, you know, especially adolescents where it's you know, the idea is to just rebel and try new things that this is that this is deadly. 00:26:08.270 --> 00:26:14.005 This is no longer just smoking pot and drinking beer out in the backyard and your parents don't know. 00:26:14.005 --> 00:26:16.885 This the pot could possibly be laced with something. 00:26:16.885 --> 00:26:20.345 It could pass and it's you're hearing it on the news. 00:26:20.645 --> 00:26:26.160 Oh, they were just kind of recreational drug use, except there was an overdose. 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:39.875 But the goal wasn't I shouldn't obviously, the goal wasn't overdose, but the goal was just recreational drug use, which not great either, but not someone who's necessarily a full blown person who has an addiction. 00:26:40.335 --> 00:26:50.575 And, therefore, they they're doing recreational drug use, and they try something that that's laced with something deadly, and they end up having an overdose. 00:26:50.575 --> 00:27:01.870 So I think part of the the prevention is parents having talks with children about drugs, how they're widely available, don't you know, this is what could happen. 00:27:03.370 --> 00:27:05.370 That would be kind of the first starting point. 00:27:05.370 --> 00:27:08.295 And then taking notice of signs of addiction. 00:27:08.295 --> 00:27:11.435 And I think in teenagers, it's really just secrecy. 00:27:11.495 --> 00:27:22.230 There's a lot of secrecy in this idea that parents are not allowed to be in charge of their child, and, you know, they're not allowed to know anything. 00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:35.555 The it's it the I think that's sort of another piece to this puzzle, especially with children who are still living at home, that parents feel like they can't say anything or do anything, and they can. 00:27:35.695 --> 00:27:38.435 And so I think that's also another piece to this. 00:27:40.015 --> 00:27:46.995 Question, to what what role can can things like faith, hope, and love play in in overcoming an addiction? 00:27:47.135 --> 00:27:48.755 How how how do you see that? 00:27:49.110 --> 00:27:52.650 I see it as the best role in how to overcome an addiction. 00:27:52.710 --> 00:28:02.090 So mostly, when I work with clients, even clients who don't report a belief in God, there is an acknowledgment that they're powerless over their use. 00:28:02.705 --> 00:28:07.445 And then there is this understanding that everything that they try to do has not helped. 00:28:07.505 --> 00:28:13.525 And that typically leads a person to a belief in something other than themselves, god, higher power. 00:28:13.985 --> 00:28:38.685 And, usually, when that happens, there's a shift that happens in the client, and then they're able to flourishing starts to happen because there's this ability to address pain, address fear, address resentments without the fear of experiencing the feelings associated with whatever's causing the pain, whatever's causing the resentments. 00:28:39.305 --> 00:28:41.325 And so because they believe in God. 00:28:42.040 --> 00:28:43.580 You know, I heard about a study. 00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.140 I don't know if you're familiar with this one or not. 00:28:46.520 --> 00:28:52.220 But apparently, during Vietnam, there was, the soldiers there were a lot of soldiers getting addicted to heroin. 00:28:53.480 --> 00:29:07.965 And some of them, when they got back, it was almost like magic that they they, got back home to their families again, and they, they were able to get off the heroin right away. 00:29:07.965 --> 00:29:14.980 There's something about like, there was a similar, I guess, chemical reaction in the the heroin made you feel like you were loved. 00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:27.925 I don't know if you're familiar with that or not, but but when you think about, you know, relationships and friendships, which I I would say goes in with faith and virtue and so forth Mhmm. 00:29:28.125 --> 00:29:29.005 That was helpful. 00:29:29.005 --> 00:29:30.445 I don't know if you're familiar with that or not. 00:29:30.445 --> 00:29:34.545 Is that does that square with your, understanding how all this works? 00:29:34.870 --> 00:29:45.930 I've never heard that study, but I do know that there are people that, for some reason, they get addicted and then and I call it episodic addiction. 00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:54.785 For example, the person in college who's just drinking every weekend all day long, and then they get out of college and it just stops. 00:29:55.085 --> 00:29:57.025 They just cut back and they're done. 00:29:57.165 --> 00:30:02.765 And so I do think that there's people out there who have that in them, the this episodic addiction. 00:30:02.765 --> 00:30:10.570 I'm sure that the the those who were using heroin in Vietnam had some sort of detox, which was horrible, and then they were you know? 00:30:10.570 --> 00:30:14.650 But it was worth it enough for them to do it for because they're home with family. 00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:16.490 That makes sense to me. 00:30:16.490 --> 00:30:18.875 I I also think there's some people who just can't. 00:30:18.875 --> 00:30:22.095 They don't have that, and they need something other than self. 00:30:22.635 --> 00:30:23.695 And yeah. 00:30:24.315 --> 00:30:35.000 Doctor Vivoichka, this has been a very interesting, podcast, a very interesting topic, a sad topic in many ways, but thank you for what you're doing to help people with these, with these addictions. 00:30:36.260 --> 00:30:47.645 Can you give us, maybe some, resources or places where people can go if they if they want help or they want more information or maybe share your email if they have questions, about this topic? 00:30:48.265 --> 00:30:48.665 Sure. 00:30:48.665 --> 00:30:55.800 So they can always contact me, f vyvlecka, vyvlecka,@divinemercy.edu. 00:30:56.360 --> 00:31:05.720 Typically, most cities have a council on alcohol and drug abuse or something similar that they could Google and look up, and there's a lot of psychoeducation there. 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:09.260 There's resources and usually some form of group. 00:31:09.555 --> 00:31:14.915 There's always, Al Anon for family members of addicts and alcoholics and 12 step groups. 00:31:14.915 --> 00:31:17.655 Pretty much anywhere you go, you can find one of those. 00:31:17.795 --> 00:31:22.055 And then, also, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, has resources. 00:31:22.275 --> 00:31:34.680 And then, again, if you, want a specifically Catholic therapist, there's Catholic Psychotherapy Association that has a list of, therapists that are Catholic in, in belief. 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:40.395 And, usually, they'll let their description will tell you if they specialize in a substance use disorder. 00:31:41.575 --> 00:31:45.915 One thing that, you talked about the the power of of fentanyl. 00:31:46.375 --> 00:31:55.760 If I think somebody if you think somebody has overdosed or been exposed to fentanyl, I I think time is a time is an issue. 00:31:55.760 --> 00:32:04.320 You'd you'd wanna you'd wanna call 911 right away and not, not try to, you know, fault on the side of caution. 00:32:04.320 --> 00:32:04.560 Right? 00:32:04.560 --> 00:32:06.615 I mean, it's it's such a powerful drug. 00:32:06.615 --> 00:32:06.935 Right. 00:32:07.175 --> 00:32:08.395 Am I correct in that? 00:32:08.535 --> 00:32:09.035 Yes. 00:32:09.255 --> 00:32:09.755 Absolutely. 00:32:10.535 --> 00:32:13.175 Well, father, I wonder if you have any last questions. 00:32:13.175 --> 00:32:15.415 This has been a a very interesting topic. 00:32:15.815 --> 00:32:19.095 We look forward to having doctor Vivekko back at another time. 00:32:19.095 --> 00:32:20.955 But, father, any any last thoughts? 00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:27.350 Just thank you, doctor Vivek Letchka, for all your hard work and for this this very, interesting, fascinating conversation. 00:32:27.650 --> 00:32:37.065 And, I'm hoping that, it will certainly it's given me some some really good knowledge and ideas to help others struggling with these problems. 00:32:37.065 --> 00:32:41.885 And I'm sure I'm sure my hope is that many people watch this will find the same. 00:32:42.425 --> 00:32:43.325 Thank you both.