So this is Frank Charles Sikorsky, president of Weimersky University, and I'm joined here today with Mark Matoza, who is the vice chancellor for the, archdiocese of military services here in The United States.
Thank you, Mark, for making time to be with us.
Good to be here with you, father, among all these people.
So many people here at the, National University of Congress, and, I think there are 50,000 people.
It's just a great church event, and really, really just blessed and graced to be here.
So, you're vice chancellor for evangelization Yes.
At the Archdiocese of the military.
So tell a little bit about what what that entails and what that's all about.
Well, I began working with Archdiocese about, twenty years ago and came in with, opening an office for youth ministry, which then expanded a young adult ministry, faith formation, and evangelization.
And our goal really is to meet the archbishop's goal of supporting Catholic priests and Catholic coordinators on military installations around the world.
So about 220 US military installations and then providing for resources for people to grow in their Catholic faith when they're deployed, underway on ships, work wherever they are.
And I don't know if I there's any truth to this, but my gut is it seems to me like the military military families would be more devout or be more interested in god and faith.
Is is there any correlation to that or not?
Or is it That was the old saying that, more people would, believe in God in a foxhole.
I I think, that we a little bit more of the reverse is happening in the sense of, people are great, kind of having more sense of self doubt that what they've seen or done has almost alienated them from approaching God or the community.
So the very things that could help them, like the healing Eucharist that we're here to celebrate, sometimes they remove themselves from it.
So the importance of being able to reach out and talk about the our joy for the faith that is really vital right now.
So you mentioned self doubt from things they've seen and experienced.
Yes.
So I guess that's one of your major obstacles then to evangelize.
It can be.
Right.
Could you could tell a little bit of more about what how that happens and what what's involved there?
We, you know, there's we know a lot about post traumatic stress, and that happened it was discovered by, VA chap psychologists working with, veterans and and understanding this is what they experienced.
What's going on?
Something traumatic something, traumatic happened to them, whereas there's also, what we call moral injury.
And moral injury is something either that you've been ordered to do or you've done on your own that goes against your deeply held core beliefs.
And I the last few, experiences of war that we've been through in our country have really exasperated that.
So there have been both post traumatic stress and then experiences of moral injury.
So that's, an experience of, feeling alienated from oneself, from God, and even from the community.
But some of that is actually the they've actually participated in evil things.
Could some of it also be that the consciences aren't properly formed and sometimes they might think, this is really wrong, but maybe it's not.
I I I don't know how that I think it's the right place.
A little bit of the reverse.
Because I could see that causing moral injury as well.
Well, they could but it's almost the reverse.
It's almost that your conscious is working correctly in the sense of, I was ordered to do something, and in the moment, it doesn't feel anything.
But when I come home or a few months later and reflecting on, I was ordered to shoot through a wall, and I ended up shooting a child, I'm not supposed to kill, especially a young person.
And now that starts to play on someone's soul.
So that means your conscience is actually working the right way and in in one sense, a step toward healing.
Yeah.
You know, there's one thing I that I think if if they're positive about talking about moral injuries, we're actually recognizing scientifically now.
Yes.
I don't think it's in the DSM yet, but it's No.
But it says that DSM is is the, manual of dyes diagnostic, statistical manual that lists all the psychological disorders.
Yes.
However, there's growing research on this Yes.
Where, the field and the practice of mental health and psychology are recognizing there is a moral industry, and and that presupposes something about the human person has we have a moral compass.
Correct.
This is one of the things we do in at DMU is where we base, the backbone of of our of our programs, this Catholic anthropology, Catholic vision of the person, which includes, our moral compass and our our, you know, what you know, leading a life of doing the right thing.
Right.
So I think it's encouraging that that research is is is actually now pretty much in the mainstream accepting that.
You know?
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I was thinking even, one of the prayers for anointing of the sick, so a healing sacrament calls for fresh courage.
Right?
So so think of, we want people in the military to have courage, which doesn't mean that they'll they'll do do anything without abandon.
It means, having the courage to to stand up and work as a team to pursue a mission.
Right?
And to know when to call out something when it's wrong.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I guess the downside of the moral injury is that so many, unfortunately, so many, members of military are experiencing this.
What resources do you have or what what how how what has the diocese been able to do?
Is it making any progress in helping, and what are the keys to doing that?
So we just, had a convocation for Catholic priests.
The archbishop does that every two years with all priests in the military.
And the keynote sessions were on moral injury to really talk about not creating new resources, but looking at what's in the community already to help accompany those who are struggling.
And, the most important is to listen.
Right?
To be able to listen into a wound, to invite people when they're ready to come back to the sacraments because we know how important ritual is, to remember that the Lord is always with us even when we self doubt, and to realize that we as civilians, who have, by our votes, sent people to war, also bear a responsibility to help pray those people back into community.
Saint Umber's had a wonderful quote about that because, in his time in the fourth century, people who were going off to kill would would just remove themselves from receiving the Eucharist.
And he that upset him because the very source of healing, they were missing.
So he asked the community, we need to pray and and cry for those who need this healing to help welcome them back.
It's our responsibility.
And I think sometimes we expect people who are suffering to go find the healing on their own.
So how can we as a community be aware?
Just mentioning the word, Marlon, are you praying for it and, accompanying that way?
That's a great point.
You know, you think about, well, I'm I'm too old to serve in the military now or I whatever.
I I you know, we kinda that's a problem with the soldiers, but we benefit from it.
And what better way to help them and to support them and understand what what they've gone through and and, yeah, yeah, in our own way, promoting God's divine mercy and your God's mercy and the sacraments and profession if that's necessary and then supporting them with the sacraments.
And I think we we we do bear responsibility in a really concrete way that we all can can help, help veterans in this circumstance.
One of the examples we used was the, the image of, Carvaggio's painting of, Doubting Thomas.
And, yeah.
And, Jesus guiding Thomas's finger right into his wound, but that the wound is not it's not only looking in, but there's a wound of that experience that's also looking out and and needing to release some of the things so that the beauty can come out as well.
Well, you know, that's so important because we often we think about the resurrection.
We sometimes forget Jesus still has the wounds.
That's right.
He's risen.
Yeah.
He's overcome death.
He's overcome the crucifixion.
But yet those wounds are still there.
And I think it could be a real sign for all of us.
We've all had different wounds in our lives, different failures, sins, whatever, trauma, experiences.
It's okay.
Yeah.
You know?
At least in this world, it's not that we're gonna be made perfect yet.
Right?
We're still gonna carry that with us.
And I think to, some soldiers have even talked about being able to look at the crucifix and recognize God traumatized through that experience to realize, the Lord understands and was with me in that traumatic experience.
What are the kinds of things in, you know, we have a rising mental health crisis.
Yeah.
In the world, in the country, we see the numbers going up.
I know with veterans, there's a, there's different numbers out there, but abnormally high suicide rate.
What do do you see that a lot in your work?
And, someone might do we have a lot of students who might wanna work with veterans?
Any thoughts you might offer them?
Yeah.
It's it's, becoming a big issue on active duty as well as with veterans.
The sense of alienation that, kind of secular society has manifested has has been a challenge.
A lot of times, people do their work day on a military installation, go back to the barracks, and maybe play games with people back home, not interact with people who are their neighbors.
And so this is kind of a missing piece of what's it mean to build community anymore and how difficult it is to come come around and do that.
So, the military's understanding that is trying to get mental health providers to be closer to them, even on ships, in the barracks, kind of like on university campuses.
So so there's definitely a need, and those who would study that and and could walk alongside would be very needed.
I suppose with many military I mean, they're trained to be tough.
Right.
Whether a man or a woman, you know, they, you know, don't show your emotions.
Yeah.
Are they more reluctant to seek help about anything?
I I I wonder if you There has been, and it used to be in the military.
If you sought, mental health providers, that would go on your record.
So so you would be seen as no longer being able to be a good leader.
Right?
That's that is starting to shift now because people are recognizing the intensity of how we engage in, what we call kinetic actions in the military warfare, is so intense now that it can't not affect people.
And senior leaders are realizing if we don't do something about this, we're we're gonna have a problem.
So the marines even had a a mental health provider, o overall of the marines to talk about, we've got to be talking about, mental health issues and helping accompany people looking for signs for suicide awareness, things like that.
And also, you know, so many great priests are in the military, archdiocese.
And they're, I think they're all they all need a military appointment.
Right?
They're all are they all or they get training and so forth?
They do.
Yes.
Yeah.
How to be an officer in the military, how to lead as a chaplain, but then also bring their gift as, a called as a priest to serve, wherever Catholics are are serving themselves.
Yeah.
So we have a lot of our student.
We have many students with military backgrounds.
We'd like to get more of it.
But, because I think your need is so great.
You do need more.
And we have quite a few of our doctoral students have done have interned at, VA hospitals.
Some have gone back to work thereafter.
So we really there's a real heart, I think, among the DMU community or at least there's a lot of interest to serve.
And so, any words to students like that who really wanna thinking about making you a career or or even if it's private practice that they wanna specialize in military veterans.
We have we have a first responder who was a former, undercover police officer.
All he sees now are police officers and military.
Yeah.
But we're getting more and more students who kinda wanna do that and carve out a niche because sometimes I think to break maybe the stigma, you know, the military, but they they will trust someone who's been there before Right.
And lived through that than it was to go to whomever.
I think So, actually, go ahead.
Yeah.
That's the key, what you just said.
I I think I would encourage those who are in the military who feel a call to study at at Divine Mercy to really contemplate it because, those who are struggling are going to feel as though they're heard first by those who understand that lifestyle.
It doesn't mean the only ones, but it's the most important starting place.
And when you can listen with compassion and understand what the struggle is in living a military life, that that creates, a bond right away that's gonna really help the healing process.
So we've been very privileged to have a partnership with Divine Mercy, University, and with and the archdiocese with the military services, and and we're really looking forward to seeing that grow.
Well, thank you.
We're we're we're blessed to have that partnership and to work with you, bringing more students helping four more students to go out and serve the military.
And, it's just just one of those areas that we really need to be, we love our religious freedom.
We love our country.
These are the men and women who make it happen and protect us.
And, we can never underestimate their sacrifices and and the service they do for everyone.
So Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for your service and what you're doing, and, be assured of our prayers, and I ask everyone out there to pray for, our military, our military archdiocese, and and, hopefully, you know, understand, you know, how we better love and serve our veterans as they come back.
Thanks so much, and thanks for the great work you're doing to help encourage people to find healing, both, individually and in community.
It's important work.
Thank you, Mark.
God bless you.
Yeah.
You Bye bye.
Thank you.