WEBVTT

00:00:05.920 --> 00:00:18.955
Is in its twenty third year and following our tradition aims at building a body of learning discussion that is Catholic both in its breadth of research and in its dialogue with contemporary Catholic Christian thought.

00:00:19.655 --> 00:00:24.075
And now I invite our president, father Charles Sikorsky, to open us in prayer.

00:00:24.215 --> 00:00:25.035
Go to Charles.

00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:29.990
Thank you, Steve.

00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:33.110
In the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit, amen.

00:00:34.690 --> 00:00:45.395
Heavenly father, we wanna thank you for this great liturgical season of Easter where we remember and celebrate the resurrection of your son, our lord Jesus Christ, from death.

00:00:45.855 --> 00:01:01.980
We thank you for this great season, experience of races, of new life, the graces of hope, the grace of knowing that we can always trust that your power is greater than the cross and greater than death itself.

00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:05.980
So many times in life, things are difficult.

00:01:06.520 --> 00:01:07.080
We suffer.

00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:09.180
There's so many suffering people in the world.

00:01:09.565 --> 00:01:14.305
Your son took all those things away and gave them new meaning and back on the cross.

00:01:14.525 --> 00:01:28.490
And most of all, in his trying, help us to always remember that in the midst of every cross, every sacrifice, every suffering and disappointment of Good Friday comes joy, the new life, and the love of Easter.

00:01:29.110 --> 00:01:37.515
Help us to celebrate this season with open hearts close to you with great hope and great joy.

00:01:38.695 --> 00:01:41.655
We wanna pray for all those now who don't see that light.

00:01:41.655 --> 00:01:45.735
We're suffering in many different ways today in our world.

00:01:45.735 --> 00:01:55.770
We pray for an outpouring of peace, of love, of unity in our world to that in our church as well.

00:01:56.150 --> 00:01:58.970
And we thank you as well for immense talk and speaker.

00:01:59.590 --> 00:02:02.935
We're gonna talk about talk about the truth.

00:02:03.235 --> 00:02:03.715
You're good.

00:02:03.715 --> 00:02:05.475
You're truly good and beautiful today.

00:02:05.475 --> 00:02:07.335
You expect the night in such a way.

00:02:07.715 --> 00:02:08.515
We thank you.

00:02:08.515 --> 00:02:11.415
We put this presentation to the scene.

00:02:12.435 --> 00:02:14.375
How you are reflected in beauty.

00:02:15.410 --> 00:02:21.830
In beauty and art is and that inspires us to think about you and the wonders of your creation.

00:02:22.690 --> 00:02:30.375
We pray to doctor Bitz as he continues and is ready preparing for retirement.

00:02:30.515 --> 00:02:35.095
We thank you for all the years of his service and love of our students and our students.

00:02:35.475 --> 00:02:44.890
We we pray that your holy spirit will guide him tonight so we all can be edified and pointed toward the goodness and truth and the beauty of your son, our lord Jesus Christ.

00:02:45.110 --> 00:02:47.270
In the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit.

00:02:47.270 --> 00:02:47.670
Amen.

00:02:47.670 --> 00:02:48.170
Amen.

00:02:50.870 --> 00:02:51.370
Amen.

00:02:54.185 --> 00:02:59.165
Now please welcome doctor William Nordlin who will introduce Petra.

00:03:05.305 --> 00:03:22.500
It's a great privilege for me to introduce my dear colleague and friend, doctor Paul Vicks, as he completes this year's Newman lecture series with the presentation on psychology and visual art, modernist painting, and postmodern art, mainly of beauty.

00:03:23.725 --> 00:03:31.425
Paul Vicks is one of the founding fathers of the Institute of Psychological Sciences and of its becoming Divine Mercy University.

00:03:32.525 --> 00:03:41.810
He had been with IPS DMU since its inception in 1999 and actually taught the very first course offered by the IPS.

00:03:43.150 --> 00:03:53.010
In his twenty four years career with DMU, he has made essential contributions to the intellectual foundation and missions of the university.

00:03:54.965 --> 00:04:18.480
Doctor Biss is coeditor and coauthor of a groundbreaking book, A Catholic Christian Meta Model of the Person, Integration with Psychology and Mental Health Practice, which won an international expanded reason award in 2020 from the Vatican Foundation for its expansion of the relationship, of faith science and psychology.

00:04:19.545 --> 00:04:29.485
Doctor Vitts is also professor emeritus of psychology at New York University where he taught for over three decades prior to joining DMU.

00:04:30.825 --> 00:04:43.100
At DMU, he made important contributions in experimental psychology, cognitive psychology, and more broadly began his scholarship critiquing modern psychology.

00:04:44.200 --> 00:05:03.820
His influential book, Psychology as Religion, the Cult of Self Worship, was a sobering call to psychology to recognize its limits and its needs to make a place in psychology for transcendence and truth instead of reductionism and relativism.

00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:07.960
Generally, the introduction would stop now.

00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:09.580
We can move on to the presentation.

00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:16.665
Now this would leave the audience not truly introduced to our speaker.

00:05:17.045 --> 00:05:32.710
There are at least three extraordinary things contained in the previous comments that are implicit, but injustice should be made explicit in order for you to understand what a remarkable gift doctor Paul Bitz is.

00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:39.670
First, it's been mentioned that doctor Paul Bitz is a professor of Emeritus of Psychology at New York University.

00:05:40.370 --> 00:05:52.645
In academia, this status is only awarded very selectively to faculty members who've given a lifetime of service to their institutions and made significant scholarly contributions.

00:05:54.065 --> 00:06:12.650
This means that in 1999, when doctor Bitz learned about the project to create IPS, now DMU, he was already a well respected scholar in his mid sixties with tenure at a very prestigious university.

00:06:12.650 --> 00:06:18.885
Yet he heard the call of God and joined an effort to found a new university from scratch.

00:06:19.665 --> 00:06:23.125
This was an act of faith, hope, and charity.

00:06:24.545 --> 00:06:29.365
Second, most scholars have a very small intellectual playground.

00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:38.510
They have a narrow area of specialization, which they focus on almost exclusively throughout their careers.

00:06:39.210 --> 00:06:52.485
However, if we extend this metaphor of intellectual playground, the professor gets, we would have to say his life work was the size, scope, and diversity of an intellectual amusement park.

00:06:53.665 --> 00:06:56.405
One close to the size of Disney World.

00:06:57.980 --> 00:07:20.355
Experimental psychology, cognitive psychology, personality theory, research on serial killers, a comprehensive analysis of a Christian view of a person, and tonight for us, art and beauty are but a selective listing of the areas of inquiry that have captured this creative and curious mark.

00:07:22.255 --> 00:07:36.940
Finally, it's it's easy to look at the remarkable big picture achievements of our presenter and to lose sight of the micro level of day in, day out actions that reveal his character as a person.

00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:56.285
Through over a thousand lectures carefully prepared, hundreds of meetings patiently mentoring students on their dissertations, through your regular meetings and collaborations with your colleagues, through your frequent expressions of friendship, concern, and encouragement.

00:07:57.330 --> 00:08:04.150
You had, doctor Bitz, helped your students and colleagues grow in knowledge, wisdom, and character.

00:08:05.490 --> 00:08:06.950
For this, we thank you.

00:08:07.730 --> 00:08:15.385
But more importantly, for your exemplary remodeling of generosity, sacrifice, and self giving.

00:08:16.165 --> 00:08:25.385
You have helped your students and colleagues become better Christians and helped DMU to more vibrantly live out its Christian mission.

00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:28.400
For this, we are eternally grateful.

00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:32.640
I now trust you to our speaker, Doctor Paul Fitz.

00:08:40.125 --> 00:08:40.625
Wow.

00:08:41.085 --> 00:08:43.265
And after that, I have nothing I can say.

00:08:46.765 --> 00:08:47.825
Thank you, Bill.

00:08:49.565 --> 00:08:53.825
Well, this evening, I'm presenting material that I've never presented before.

00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:57.130
So some of the edges may seem a little rough.

00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:02.170
But we have a question and answer period where we could smooth things out, I believe.

00:09:04.070 --> 00:09:07.850
In addition, we'll be talking mostly about painting and about images.

00:09:09.665 --> 00:09:12.485
And so I think you will find it interesting.

00:09:13.425 --> 00:09:16.725
Paintings and images are interesting, sort of, intrinsic.

00:09:17.825 --> 00:09:19.525
It's not just a word lecture.

00:09:22.650 --> 00:09:30.910
And so not only interesting, I hope what would every now and then, we'll also find it just plain fun.

00:09:32.410 --> 00:09:36.935
So we are now gonna go and look at slide one.

00:09:39.155 --> 00:09:39.655
There.

00:09:40.195 --> 00:09:41.975
Not so pretty, of course.

00:09:42.275 --> 00:09:53.890
But here we see we're gonna start with what it does take to make an image with a little bit of a a look at children's developmental art.

00:09:53.890 --> 00:09:58.710
And we're gonna assume that children start, and there's a lot of evidence that there's effect.

00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:03.510
They start art with what I call stage one, the scribble stage.

00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:05.590
Examples here.

00:10:06.065 --> 00:10:10.225
Next slide.

00:10:10.225 --> 00:10:24.550
On the left, we have a list of the kind of basic scribbles that children show developed by, a woman named Kello Kello who's very deeply involved in the study of children's art.

00:10:24.550 --> 00:10:31.530
So we see here a group of the basic scribbles that start the beginning of an image.

00:10:31.830 --> 00:10:36.490
And I call this the basic scribble stage level one or stage one.

00:10:38.205 --> 00:10:48.765
Over here, we see that after stage one, which is shown here as number one, you'll begin to see it at the beginning of what I call stage two in the development of an image.

00:10:48.765 --> 00:10:54.680
And that, I call basic very simple patterns.

00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:58.260
You know, simple geometric patterns.

00:10:58.260 --> 00:10:58.760
Okay?

00:11:00.100 --> 00:11:01.860
And we see them here square.

00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:05.000
They're this so you can all see them.

00:11:05.285 --> 00:11:13.305
The third stage, which comes after, geometric patterns, is what I call schematic images.

00:11:13.845 --> 00:11:19.305
Schematic images are short forms of a of an image of something that you can rec recognize.

00:11:19.605 --> 00:11:22.170
In In other words, they are schematic objects.

00:11:23.030 --> 00:11:26.170
And here's we assume that's a face.

00:11:27.750 --> 00:11:31.050
That's the beginning of stage three and the making of an image.

00:11:33.685 --> 00:11:39.765
There's some more stage three getting more complex in terms of a schematic object.

00:11:39.765 --> 00:11:42.405
Here you see the the the face is getting legs.

00:11:42.405 --> 00:11:50.300
So we're starting to move toward what is obviously at the highest level, still the schematic representation, of an object.

00:11:50.300 --> 00:11:51.600
In this case, the person.

00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.160
So that's level three.

00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:56.720
Level one again, basic scribbles.

00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:59.600
Level two, geometric patterns.

00:12:00.385 --> 00:12:03.525
Level three, schematic objects.

00:12:05.105 --> 00:12:07.925
Level four is going to be three d dimensional.

00:12:08.225 --> 00:12:08.725
Okay?

00:12:12.225 --> 00:12:13.125
Next slide.

00:12:13.790 --> 00:12:15.630
And, doctor Diggs, let me just invite you.

00:12:15.630 --> 00:12:22.370
If we may if you have a row number, like five or six when you're talking about the levels, if you can name that for our online viewers.

00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:23.490
Oh, okay.

00:12:23.870 --> 00:12:24.690
We'll try.

00:12:24.750 --> 00:12:25.490
Thank you.

00:12:31.605 --> 00:12:32.505
Next slide.

00:12:37.125 --> 00:12:38.665
We're ready for the next slide.

00:12:42.370 --> 00:12:46.790
Here are some more detailed examples of the schematic level.

00:12:47.090 --> 00:12:55.190
Very early schema, you can tell that's supposed to be the face of a person and presumably legs or possibly arms and so forth.

00:12:55.565 --> 00:12:57.905
And down at the bottom whoops.

00:13:05.565 --> 00:13:11.220
You see a a higher levels, schematic object of of a person.

00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.060
See, a girl's with dresses, a dog, and so forth.

00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:26.425
Almost all human beings when they go through this development of how to draw an image or make an image, they all go through at least the stage three that is to the schematic objects.

00:13:26.645 --> 00:13:29.625
And that's where your stick figures and so forth would occur.

00:13:30.085 --> 00:13:42.410
The last stage, stage four, which is three d realism, is only, in a few few very talented, young people and is not normally what we all learn how to master.

00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:45.210
Next.

00:13:50.310 --> 00:13:51.530
So here are the stages.

00:13:53.945 --> 00:13:55.405
Can we get this off of there?

00:13:55.465 --> 00:13:56.445
Working on it.

00:14:00.025 --> 00:14:00.745
There you go.

00:14:00.745 --> 00:14:01.225
Okay.

00:14:01.225 --> 00:14:01.725
Yeah.

00:14:02.505 --> 00:14:04.365
Stage one, basic scribbles.

00:14:05.990 --> 00:14:08.090
Stage two, geometric patterns.

00:14:08.630 --> 00:14:10.650
Stage three, schematic objects.

00:14:11.350 --> 00:14:13.050
Stage four, three d realism.

00:14:13.430 --> 00:14:20.065
And I put up another stage in here at level zero or stage zero.

00:14:20.285 --> 00:14:22.365
And this is a plain surface to draw on.

00:14:22.365 --> 00:14:31.105
It's really not the image, but it's the surface on which you're going to begin to make a plain piece of paper or plain piece of canvas or whatever.

00:14:31.610 --> 00:14:33.870
I call that stage or level zero.

00:14:35.450 --> 00:14:35.770
Okay.

00:14:35.770 --> 00:14:36.590
Let's go.

00:14:39.290 --> 00:14:48.545
And these are the levels that the child will go through up to schematic objects, and almost all of us can do at least a schematic object image drawing right now.

00:14:49.005 --> 00:14:54.465
I can tell that degree of talent that's present in the Next slide, please.

00:14:57.565 --> 00:15:05.870
What we have here is a we're now moving from the normal development of a drawing as it occurs with children.

00:15:06.330 --> 00:15:23.125
Now what we're going to look at are drawings made by patients, by patients who were either getting more and more depressed, more and more pathological, or in a few cases, we'll see where patients were getting better and better when they were re recovering.

00:15:24.225 --> 00:15:25.925
These are drawings by them.

00:15:26.065 --> 00:15:28.625
And what we see here is a a woman.

00:15:28.625 --> 00:15:33.560
She's this is her first drawing, and it's a pretty high level, stage three.

00:15:33.560 --> 00:15:36.920
It's sort of schematic, but it it it's pretty high level development.

00:15:36.920 --> 00:15:39.900
There's a little bit hint of depth in the hair and so forth.

00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:46.220
We move over here in the second the second object of of the image.

00:15:47.535 --> 00:15:50.115
Here, we see that she has begun to regress.

00:15:50.655 --> 00:16:04.520
And so what we're looking at here is a a kind of measure of the increase in pathology in a person by looking at the way in which they go back down the stages that would normally be present in a in in development.

00:16:05.300 --> 00:16:09.300
So she's at the stage three, high level, three level here.

00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:11.720
She's now that's very, schematic.

00:16:13.745 --> 00:16:16.725
She's more more pathological here.

00:16:16.785 --> 00:16:21.525
And at the last stage when the last drawing was made, she was even more severely pathological.

00:16:21.985 --> 00:16:26.325
And here, we see that we're down to, well, a fair number of basic scribbles.

00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:28.440
We see a simple geometric here.

00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.460
We're not quite sure what that might mean.

00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.260
And here we see a schematic object.

00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:39.660
So she's moved down the hierarchy that normally a child moves up.

00:16:40.965 --> 00:16:41.205
Okay.

00:16:41.205 --> 00:16:42.105
Next slide.

00:16:45.525 --> 00:16:47.465
Here's another this was an artist.

00:16:48.405 --> 00:16:53.545
We've lost some of the detail here, but this one he was not especially disturbed.

00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:55.490
And these are rather realistic.

00:16:55.950 --> 00:17:00.030
There's some of the detail as well that shows the three dimensionality of these.

00:17:00.030 --> 00:17:04.450
But then I think you can see that these are more realistic.

00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:09.410
They're they would be really I would call them low level stage four.

00:17:10.965 --> 00:17:11.465
Realistic.

00:17:13.685 --> 00:17:20.505
But as he as his depression increased and his pathology increased, we have a drawing like this.

00:17:21.125 --> 00:17:24.250
At this point, we're into we're out of stage four four altogether.

00:17:24.310 --> 00:17:26.090
We're into schematic entirely.

00:17:29.430 --> 00:17:32.250
And then when he's this is two years later.

00:17:33.750 --> 00:17:39.785
He's now almost entirely well, that I guess there may be a hint of a base there.

00:17:39.785 --> 00:17:40.265
I don't know.

00:17:40.265 --> 00:17:41.485
A hint of the schematic.

00:17:41.785 --> 00:17:48.285
Most of it is this kind of thing you find at level two with geometric shapes and possibly some scribbles.

00:17:49.465 --> 00:17:56.470
So we see, again, regression in this in the expression of this person's increased pathology.

00:17:58.210 --> 00:18:12.395
In a way, these could also almost be used as as measures of which way the of the degree of pathology of a person in terms of the extent to which they regress down the the schematic, representation of an image.

00:18:13.655 --> 00:18:14.155
Next.

00:18:17.335 --> 00:18:19.275
Here's the patient who got better.

00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:23.010
There's his first one.

00:18:23.550 --> 00:18:27.630
I'd say that's hardly I don't know that we'd even say that's a schematic base.

00:18:27.630 --> 00:18:32.610
You might, but it's certainly filled with some geometric patterns and and scribbles.

00:18:33.390 --> 00:18:36.190
Here, we have clearly, you're you do have a base here.

00:18:36.190 --> 00:18:40.935
We're up to very low levels, steeped at level three, very low level.

00:18:41.635 --> 00:18:44.615
Here we're at a little higher level of schematic.

00:18:44.995 --> 00:18:53.270
And finally, at the last drawing by this man, he's beginning he's part of part of level four is showing up there.

00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:56.470
He's beginning to get a little bit of depth along with the realism.

00:18:56.770 --> 00:19:04.175
So he has both the schematic at the high level and some real depth and, realism in the at the fourth level.

00:19:04.175 --> 00:19:06.095
So it's a mix of those two levels.

00:19:06.095 --> 00:19:13.395
But it's very clear that you can see as this person goes up the stages that they're that they're obviously getting better.

00:19:14.495 --> 00:19:14.995
Next.

00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:34.405
This patient was a young woman who was brought into, I'm sorry, emergency hospital in New York, and she was completely, I don't know whether that's quite the case, but completely gone.

00:19:34.405 --> 00:19:35.465
She was on drugs.

00:19:36.165 --> 00:19:38.825
And this is the first thing she drew when she came in.

00:19:39.125 --> 00:19:41.305
It's entirely on basic scribbles.

00:19:42.885 --> 00:19:53.240
And this young woman stayed there until, late the next day, and she drew around noon on the on the first day she was in there.

00:19:53.780 --> 00:19:54.660
She drew this.

00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.120
And here we see schematics.

00:19:56.180 --> 00:19:58.180
It's a big improvement from here.

00:19:58.180 --> 00:20:00.360
She's recovering from her drug exposure.

00:20:00.785 --> 00:20:06.965
And so in fact, by the time she gets to this drawing, she's at real we have three d realism.

00:20:07.025 --> 00:20:10.485
She's at stage four, and she was released.

00:20:12.065 --> 00:20:18.340
So this was a very quick positive response due to, a serious drug overdose problem.

00:20:18.340 --> 00:20:21.480
In other words, she was not mentally disturbed in that sense.

00:20:22.100 --> 00:20:24.820
And it's just the effect of that of the drug.

00:20:24.820 --> 00:20:29.160
But you can see it was very powerful in terms of the original norm.

00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:29.880
Next.

00:20:35.825 --> 00:20:37.525
Here's another patient.

00:20:39.825 --> 00:20:42.645
This is one who came in in in that same clinic.

00:20:42.865 --> 00:20:50.630
One of my students, pieces of paper for the for the patients to draw on.

00:20:50.770 --> 00:20:52.290
Here's the first one when he came in.

00:20:52.290 --> 00:20:55.670
That's a clear schematic level three of a person.

00:20:56.050 --> 00:21:06.105
We come to this one, and although we can see some squares and some geometric pattern, there are no rec no schematic objects that are recognizable here.

00:21:06.105 --> 00:21:09.705
So we've dropped from level schematic level three.

00:21:09.705 --> 00:21:12.445
He's dropped down to level two completely here.

00:21:12.745 --> 00:21:21.000
And this one, the only geometric that's left is this one little section here in the middle, and the rest of it looks all like basic scribbles.

00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:29.800
And she this this, patient would then act it was shortly after this one, which was about about three days later.

00:21:30.020 --> 00:21:33.960
It was, submitted to the long term psychiatric care.

00:21:35.085 --> 00:21:45.425
What what I'm trying to point out here is that, again, movement up and down the stages of creating an image is a very interesting notion to keep in mind.

00:21:45.805 --> 00:21:46.305
Next.

00:21:49.670 --> 00:21:53.050
Oh, big change.

00:21:53.350 --> 00:21:54.570
I'm I'm having that.

00:21:56.070 --> 00:22:01.370
What I'm now gonna be talking about is is technically called modernist art.

00:22:02.285 --> 00:22:06.305
It's what most people think of when they think of the term modern art, but it isn't.

00:22:06.365 --> 00:22:16.865
Modernist art is that trajectory in the history of painting that ended up with abstract art, and we'll see where it finally ends up as well.

00:22:17.330 --> 00:22:19.350
And that we'll call modernist art.

00:22:20.130 --> 00:22:20.630
Alright?

00:22:21.490 --> 00:22:24.770
All art in the modern period is not the same by any means.

00:22:24.770 --> 00:22:31.670
So this trajectory that we're looking at is that very fascinating one that led to the development of abstract art and so forth.

00:22:32.315 --> 00:22:42.415
And what I'm going to be arguing here is that these artists are gonna go down that hierarchy as though they're pathological, but they're not.

00:22:43.915 --> 00:22:49.240
None of them were, as far as I know, at all ill in any particular mental sense at all.

00:22:49.240 --> 00:23:05.995
But what I would like to propose is this, is that the hierarchy that you can come up and under pathology, you can go back down on, that hierarchy is available for any one of us to investigate as long as we can regress in the service of the ego.

00:23:06.615 --> 00:23:09.095
And what here, let me explain what I mean by this.

00:23:09.095 --> 00:23:15.550
Regression means that you can go back to earlier periods of your own life, memories, experiences, and so on.

00:23:15.550 --> 00:23:19.490
You can go to some degree, to earlier time periods.

00:23:20.030 --> 00:23:24.670
But in the service of the ego means you can bring it with what you've regressed to.

00:23:24.670 --> 00:23:30.805
You can bring it back up and deal with it with your artistic talent, your artistic knowledge, and so forth.

00:23:31.265 --> 00:23:37.445
The problem with our mentally disturbed patients that we were looking at is they couldn't come back voluntarily.

00:23:38.065 --> 00:23:42.530
Most of them, they just regressed, but couldn't come back because the placebo wasn't strong enough.

00:23:42.530 --> 00:23:45.270
They were still, trapped down there.

00:23:46.610 --> 00:23:58.625
A few people such as some of the cooking ones in my show, my second young lady, they weren't so badly regressed so badly regressed by the drug that we had inserted.

00:23:58.625 --> 00:24:03.765
They couldn't come back in a few days and we have very natural abilities to grow.

00:24:04.385 --> 00:24:14.050
But what I'm gonna therefore argue is that the creativity of the modernist movement was regression in the service of the artist's ego that can come back up.

00:24:14.050 --> 00:24:18.870
And then second, I'm arguing that they're gonna regress historically on average.

00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:41.830
Historically, modernism is gonna start at level four or at realism, lose depth and move to conceptual objects, lose even reference to objects and moves to, geometric patterns, and then move from geometric patterns to something that's that we'll call basic scribbles.

00:24:44.050 --> 00:24:47.670
That was called abstract expression when when it was a painter.

00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:49.810
And then I got that.

00:24:49.810 --> 00:24:51.990
You'll even get down to level zero.

00:24:53.685 --> 00:24:54.085
Yep.

00:24:54.085 --> 00:24:54.485
Okay.

00:24:54.485 --> 00:24:54.985
Next.

00:24:55.045 --> 00:24:56.585
Well, well, I didn't mention this.

00:24:56.645 --> 00:25:05.705
This is sometimes Manet, French painter, who is sometimes considered the kind of person to show the hint of a modernist movement.

00:25:05.925 --> 00:25:07.385
And what he did whoops.

00:25:07.790 --> 00:25:09.090
We'll go back one.

00:25:11.790 --> 00:25:21.810
In this portrait, he had made the first little movement from three-dimensional realism, level four at the highest.

00:25:22.395 --> 00:25:25.615
And began to move towards flattening on the picture.

00:25:25.995 --> 00:25:27.855
That is the loss of depth.

00:25:27.995 --> 00:25:33.855
And that's the hint that then will allow basically the artist to go even further in their regression.

00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:44.110
And he's lost some of the depth that you'd normally expect at this time in the background and even if there's something somewhat absent even in the clothing and the face.

00:25:44.970 --> 00:25:49.470
And this was picked up very much by his critics at that time, and they didn't like it.

00:25:50.405 --> 00:25:51.545
But, anyway, that's.

00:25:52.965 --> 00:25:56.325
And that's roughly 1865 or something like that.

00:25:56.325 --> 00:25:56.825
Okay?

00:25:57.125 --> 00:25:57.945
In France.

00:25:58.165 --> 00:25:59.525
Now we're going to Cezanne.

00:25:59.525 --> 00:26:01.145
We're about twenty years later.

00:26:01.285 --> 00:26:02.245
I'm skipping a lot.

00:26:02.245 --> 00:26:03.225
I skipped the impressionists.

00:26:03.525 --> 00:26:04.725
We all know about them.

00:26:04.725 --> 00:26:15.090
We all know that the impressionists brought flatness back in, but they had such beautiful color, and he didn't miss the distance that would normally be involved in in third dimension.

00:26:15.790 --> 00:26:17.070
We didn't miss them.

00:26:17.070 --> 00:26:18.690
We got some of the beautiful colors.

00:26:18.830 --> 00:26:26.905
But here's Cezanne with another, portrait, and you can see it has gone further toward loss of depth.

00:26:27.685 --> 00:26:31.925
There's much less of the trip of the depth of the base and the mustache and so on.

00:26:31.925 --> 00:26:41.630
And you can begin to sense that this is gonna become a picture that's maybe more like a conceptual, schematic portrayal of a face.

00:26:42.010 --> 00:26:42.510
Next.

00:26:49.305 --> 00:26:54.285
As we move from Saison, we can see this even more striking change in the faces.

00:26:54.905 --> 00:26:58.685
This is a famous Picasso, the ladies old avenue.

00:27:01.270 --> 00:27:06.090
And you can see the faces are moving very much more toward they're really schematic objects.

00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:11.210
They're no longer in serious amounts of shading for depth and so on and so forth.

00:27:14.825 --> 00:27:17.165
It's the beginning of what was then called cubism.

00:27:18.265 --> 00:27:21.325
Most of us are from New York, leaving spanning the ladies of Avenue.

00:27:22.025 --> 00:27:25.005
We're the night ladies, so, we'll leave that aside.

00:27:25.865 --> 00:27:31.180
And, we go on to the next drawing, which is called the the green stripe.

00:27:31.180 --> 00:27:32.160
It's by Matisse.

00:27:33.100 --> 00:27:48.965
It was about the same time early '9 in the early twentieth century, we moved from, impressionism, which I haven't shown, from Cezanne and, his his paintings, which were at the end of the, nineteenth century.

00:27:48.965 --> 00:27:50.965
We've now moved into the twentieth century.

00:27:50.965 --> 00:27:54.185
We're about nineteen o five, something like that.

00:27:54.485 --> 00:27:57.280
And, this is called the green stripe.

00:27:57.280 --> 00:28:08.340
But you can see how the depth is, again, going away and how this is really I in my judgment, would be a high level of schematic things.

00:28:09.405 --> 00:28:11.425
It's very attractive because of the colors.

00:28:11.645 --> 00:28:17.825
Of course, I don't know what his wife thought because that's what she it's being that's who's portraying.

00:28:20.605 --> 00:28:27.530
But, anyway, Matisse then moves very, very decisively to the, schematic level.

00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:40.245
This is on the border between, three d realism level four and level three because it's beginning to show mostly schematic qualities, And depth is almost gone.

00:28:40.385 --> 00:28:46.405
But now we go to the next level of almost entirely schematic, representation.

00:28:47.665 --> 00:28:48.405
Next slide.

00:28:51.505 --> 00:28:52.565
Next slide, please.

00:28:55.110 --> 00:28:55.610
Okay.

00:28:55.750 --> 00:28:56.070
Okay.

00:28:56.070 --> 00:28:57.610
These are met both Matisse.

00:28:58.710 --> 00:29:05.530
This is a schematic called Blue Nude, and the Blue Nude scene series went on for a long way.

00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:10.090
There were a lot of different expressions of it, but most of them were of this type.

00:29:10.445 --> 00:29:12.785
But here we see something that's purely conceptual.

00:29:13.085 --> 00:29:21.185
It represents something on the schematic concept of specimen and nothing very little real emphasis on depth at all.

00:29:21.325 --> 00:29:24.145
So that's pure level three.

00:29:25.730 --> 00:29:27.570
Here is level three also.

00:29:27.570 --> 00:29:35.190
It's you can look at it, but it's very much reduced to the point where you're not quite sure that it's a human form.

00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:38.290
But then you look at the top and you say, oh, yes.

00:29:38.290 --> 00:29:38.610
Yes.

00:29:38.610 --> 00:29:39.615
That is that is.

00:29:39.775 --> 00:29:43.375
But what you are now is at the bottom of level three.

00:29:43.375 --> 00:29:46.915
You're getting very close to just the geometric pattern being impressive.

00:29:48.335 --> 00:29:49.475
Next slide.

00:29:55.310 --> 00:30:01.410
Somewhat on average, a few years later, we now see a move completely to level two.

00:30:04.110 --> 00:30:11.005
On the left, we have, a French painter whose work was you can see it's entirely geometric shapes.

00:30:11.705 --> 00:30:16.525
Over here, we have a famous Russian painter, Kandinsky, who also moved that way.

00:30:17.705 --> 00:30:26.180
Kandinsky, in his early drawings, did things that were moderately realistic and certainly, very dramatically, schematic.

00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.140
We did them.

00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.580
Nice colors are very, very important that way.

00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:40.385
But he then continued his regression in service of the ego, And he comes up now, maybe it's later in his earlier, a completely geometric patterns.

00:30:46.925 --> 00:30:47.985
Next slide, please.

00:30:55.050 --> 00:30:57.070
This is actually an early Mondrian.

00:30:58.330 --> 00:31:04.575
Most people would recognize it as Mondrian, but the Mondrian we had Mondrian just like Kandinsky.

00:31:04.795 --> 00:31:07.355
In his first paintings, they were in his early work.

00:31:07.355 --> 00:31:08.975
They were relatively realistic.

00:31:09.275 --> 00:31:13.215
He did a even more realistic one of this in the Jewish sculpture tree.

00:31:13.515 --> 00:31:15.835
And this is it looks something like a tree here.

00:31:15.835 --> 00:31:20.600
But you can see he's already broken it down almost to the geometric level.

00:31:21.620 --> 00:31:30.360
But this is still a schematic object if you recognize it as a tree, particularly if you could look at over here to the left, which there isn't any place to look at.

00:31:30.805 --> 00:31:39.625
He did some beautiful examples of this same tree that were more fully tree like, if you will, but they were still conceptual level trees.

00:31:40.245 --> 00:31:47.810
But we're gonna see now, Mondrian will move to the complete geometric level even simpler than the ones that we've just seen.

00:31:47.870 --> 00:31:48.690
Next slide.

00:31:52.590 --> 00:31:55.725
And so here we have the typical Mondrian on the left.

00:31:56.125 --> 00:32:00.545
Vertical or horizontal lines, basic primary colors.

00:32:01.325 --> 00:32:05.265
The one color that Mondrian didn't consider primary was green.

00:32:06.045 --> 00:32:10.545
That's because the pigments where you're red, blue, and yellow, you get greens, so it can't be primary.

00:32:11.210 --> 00:32:16.190
So you'll never find as far as I've been able to notice, you'll never find green in the.

00:32:17.050 --> 00:32:22.430
But, anyway, we see a perfectly geometric here, all level two.

00:32:24.905 --> 00:32:28.125
But, of course, you can go below the geometric, can't you?

00:32:28.125 --> 00:32:30.765
Who do you think we have here?

00:32:33.065 --> 00:32:33.945
You know who it was.

00:32:33.945 --> 00:32:35.805
This is our first American painter.

00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.250
The scribble stage has arrived.

00:32:41.350 --> 00:32:42.730
This is Jackson Pollock.

00:32:43.910 --> 00:32:44.230
Okay.

00:32:44.230 --> 00:32:45.930
Let's look at the next slide.

00:32:49.125 --> 00:32:50.185
Next slide, please.

00:32:53.845 --> 00:32:54.885
You thought I was kidding.

00:32:54.885 --> 00:32:57.385
An artist might just give you a scribble.

00:32:58.565 --> 00:33:00.825
These are both pay games.

00:33:01.290 --> 00:33:01.610
Expensive.

00:33:01.610 --> 00:33:03.770
You get don't try to buy them.

00:33:03.770 --> 00:33:18.005
There but thereby Franz Kline, the American abstract expressionist, who was a contemporary of Jackson Pollock.

00:33:18.465 --> 00:33:22.085
And the whole abstract expression is one of the main figures.

00:33:26.225 --> 00:33:28.065
Excuse me.

00:33:28.065 --> 00:33:31.590
Like, to call this a scribble stage, it doesn't seem unreasonable, does it?

00:33:31.830 --> 00:33:34.710
Of course, these are much larger than on a small piece of paper.

00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:37.210
They're rather large canvases in fact.

00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:42.330
But those are the scribble stage that we finally have reached in the trajectory of modernism.

00:33:43.830 --> 00:33:58.505
The modernist movement has come and we've seen it gone down the same hierarchy that previously children would go up, and recovering mentally disturbed people would go up.

00:34:00.310 --> 00:34:00.630
Alright.

00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:02.230
So let's look at the next slide.

00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:03.050
This is.

00:34:07.430 --> 00:34:11.930
Well, even we're getting now to what I would call almost level zero.

00:34:12.965 --> 00:34:15.205
And we're at the lowest level in a certain sense.

00:34:15.205 --> 00:34:16.425
We'll go a little further.

00:34:18.405 --> 00:34:23.625
These are Rothko's, a very well known painter at that time.

00:34:24.005 --> 00:34:31.110
And, they would be called color field paintings, and, they're very attractive in the midst of the colors.

00:34:31.170 --> 00:34:32.610
But, of course, they're very simple.

00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:34.470
We're beneath the level of scribbles.

00:34:35.410 --> 00:34:43.125
We're almost down to we're almost down to level zero where there's nothing to, nothing but the plain surface.

00:34:44.145 --> 00:34:45.925
But the it was later paintings.

00:34:47.265 --> 00:34:54.005
This this is one of this is an early Rothfeld in a much happier state of mind he was at that time.

00:34:54.330 --> 00:34:57.710
This is near the end of his life shortly before he committed suicide.

00:34:58.890 --> 00:35:05.070
Very dark, color fields, if you wanna call them color fields.

00:35:06.490 --> 00:35:06.990
Next.

00:35:10.945 --> 00:35:11.445
Okay.

00:35:11.665 --> 00:35:15.045
You can get even more extreme than the rock, though.

00:35:15.345 --> 00:35:21.525
This is, Yves Klein, a Frenchman, and then this is sometimes called Klein blue.

00:35:21.825 --> 00:35:26.570
He painted all of his paintings in different sizes and shapes, but all one color blue.

00:35:27.910 --> 00:35:36.170
So there's not even there's not even a color field mixture of two colors or a little bit of the egg that would be found with the Rothko.

00:35:37.495 --> 00:35:42.955
And there's somebody who's took whose actual work is is even more extreme than this.

00:35:43.655 --> 00:35:47.115
And I wanna talk to you about it, but you can't show him.

00:35:47.415 --> 00:35:51.275
There's nobody he he's as identifiable as that wall.

00:35:52.860 --> 00:36:00.640
Robert Irwin made what were called all white paintings, but they were called scrim pieces.

00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:07.695
And that's because what he did is he had in a gallery, there would be, let's say, four walls in the gallery.

00:36:07.755 --> 00:36:09.435
He made sure there were no windows.

00:36:09.435 --> 00:36:12.815
It's four walls, and he'd walk in where your work would be presented.

00:36:13.915 --> 00:36:21.950
And on one of the walls, he would tack, a piece of fabric called the screen that was all white.

00:36:22.330 --> 00:36:26.910
And he'd tack it across the top, tack it along the bottom and on each side.

00:36:27.210 --> 00:36:31.630
And it was the same white as the other three walls that were painted white.

00:36:32.545 --> 00:36:35.665
So when people walked into the show, what did they see?

00:36:35.665 --> 00:36:37.445
They saw four bare walls.

00:36:39.185 --> 00:36:46.405
In other words, the artwork itself had disappeared for everyone to be able to see in any normal sense.

00:36:47.110 --> 00:36:49.370
A few people were condescending.

00:36:50.230 --> 00:36:52.010
They knew what Erwin Mcdonald.

00:36:52.710 --> 00:36:54.810
They went around poking the walls.

00:36:55.510 --> 00:37:02.535
And finally, they found one wall where the string piece was had been established, and it was about three inches off the regular wall.

00:37:02.535 --> 00:37:05.435
We said, We found you out.

00:37:05.575 --> 00:37:09.675
But this is where the painting has been reduced entirely to level zero.

00:37:10.775 --> 00:37:15.195
But I don't call that a real level of an image because there's not even a scribble on it.

00:37:17.050 --> 00:37:20.830
And that's what exists in here in between these two.

00:37:23.050 --> 00:37:36.705
Even more extreme, believe it or not, you can get more extreme in the trajectory of going from four d realism not three d realism at stage four down.

00:37:36.705 --> 00:37:43.125
And you get even more extreme than an all white canvas or a canvas that you can't even tell is the surface of a painting.

00:37:43.850 --> 00:37:46.510
And that came with something about 1970.

00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:51.950
And remember, these things are roughly in chronological order, roughly.

00:37:54.890 --> 00:37:56.990
And this was called conceptual art.

00:37:58.105 --> 00:38:08.125
Conceptual art, the the artist when I was at NYU, I even had someone who was one of the more well known conceptual artists and who came over and talked to us in some way.

00:38:08.825 --> 00:38:10.905
But he said the problem with art is this.

00:38:10.905 --> 00:38:14.060
He says, you don't want there to be an object.

00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:16.780
You want only the concept.

00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:24.780
Art the best art is a concept, and it hasn't and if you make it into a physical object, that's no no.

00:38:25.175 --> 00:38:30.395
Because then people can buy and sell it, and it gets corrupted by all of the things that people do with art.

00:38:31.255 --> 00:38:39.095
So he said the best art is a concept in your head, but then nobody could say who was a good artist or a bad artist or anything.

00:38:39.095 --> 00:38:39.415
You know?

00:38:39.415 --> 00:38:40.200
I could tell you.

00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:41.720
I'm I'm really a great artist at this idea.

00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:48.140
I don't care to make it objectively visible because that would violate my aesthetic principles.

00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:56.475
But, anyway, so the the conceptual artist the ideal conceptual artist was one who did not have to make the concept visible.

00:38:56.855 --> 00:39:00.455
But, of course, they couldn't get by couldn't get by with that.

00:39:00.455 --> 00:39:05.195
So they did make objects that represented conceptual approaches to art.

00:39:06.535 --> 00:39:07.495
And this is one.

00:39:07.495 --> 00:39:08.475
And this is by.

00:39:10.050 --> 00:39:18.070
And what it was, it was a black square with, in white, the dictionary definition of the word document.

00:39:20.370 --> 00:39:24.630
He also had one that was exactly like this, except the word was idea.

00:39:25.925 --> 00:39:33.305
Then he had the words spelled out in white print exactly as it came in the dictionary, mentioning its difference in uniqueness.

00:39:34.965 --> 00:39:39.625
There are lots of conceptual artists or were at the time about 1978.

00:39:39.740 --> 00:40:01.655
And I would start to say that conceptual artists at the end of the monitor's trajectory where we've gone from three d realism, which we've been just about a dominant at the time of Manet as we've gone on we've got less and less realism, less and less three-dimensional schematic objects, you know, that's east, etcetera.

00:40:02.115 --> 00:40:23.540
And then we go down further into all geometric, and, and that the prime another one very low level in, beyond conceptual and the geometric is I don't know if you know his dad, Reinhardt.

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.415
He did sometimes move with the call.

00:40:25.415 --> 00:40:27.035
He would call all black days.

00:40:27.335 --> 00:40:28.535
He made one mistake.

00:40:28.535 --> 00:40:33.435
He would leave a black square visible against an almost equally black background.

00:40:33.735 --> 00:40:35.835
So there was something to see there.

00:40:36.370 --> 00:40:38.390
It wasn't just the the thing.

00:40:39.810 --> 00:40:43.030
But this was something, at the time, often called minimal art.

00:40:44.370 --> 00:40:58.245
But what I'm trying to say is that the artist has now moved down, to the to the geometric stage or even further kind of extremals or even further down to almost nothing at all when it comes to the plain surface.

00:41:00.465 --> 00:41:03.205
And that's the end of modernism, 1970.

00:41:06.490 --> 00:41:07.950
It went out with a whimper.

00:41:08.970 --> 00:41:10.670
I don't think it's a part.

00:41:11.370 --> 00:41:13.050
Art critics and people study it.

00:41:13.050 --> 00:41:17.475
They know all about their reports and write their education on the subject and so forth.

00:41:17.635 --> 00:41:21.575
But in 1970, what were you gonna do if you were a young artist?

00:41:22.195 --> 00:41:23.555
You gotta do something different.

00:41:23.555 --> 00:41:24.055
Right?

00:41:25.075 --> 00:41:27.095
So what did you do that was different?

00:41:28.675 --> 00:41:34.570
Well, you had to go back to the image, and that's what postmodernist art was.

00:41:34.570 --> 00:41:36.110
They went back to the image.

00:41:36.810 --> 00:41:38.510
Now let's look at the next slide.

00:41:41.530 --> 00:41:42.750
Next slide, please.

00:41:45.465 --> 00:41:56.745
I I propose that the first postmodernist artist was Andy Warhol, and he went back to the image, but in a different way that had ever been done before.

00:41:56.745 --> 00:42:02.340
His famous Marilyn Monroe on the right, and it is it is Campbell Soup can on the left.

00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:05.380
It was called Pop Art, and you can see why.

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:10.020
But they're going back to the image, but they're going back to it with a different attitude.

00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:16.145
If this with Andy Warhol, the attitude was relatively positive and humorous.

00:42:17.405 --> 00:42:18.385
Sort of fun.

00:42:19.405 --> 00:42:19.645
Hey.

00:42:19.645 --> 00:42:20.765
Here's Marilyn Monroe.

00:42:20.765 --> 00:42:26.220
We've also been looking at just done her four times now and with slightly different coloring in some of them.

00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:28.700
And, isn't that great?

00:42:28.700 --> 00:42:29.520
And it was.

00:42:30.460 --> 00:42:39.520
They they they had given the image up entirely with with conceptual art and with minimal art, and now we're back to it.

00:42:39.605 --> 00:42:41.365
But it's in a with a new attitude.

00:42:41.365 --> 00:42:45.545
It's the attitude that's gonna change and make the difference in what we call postmodernism.

00:42:47.045 --> 00:42:48.825
Let's take a look at the next slide.

00:42:53.210 --> 00:43:02.270
Here's along along with, Andy Warhol at the same time, early postmodern would be Roy Lichtenstein.

00:43:02.970 --> 00:43:10.245
And so what he did is he took comic strip strip images and made them large as canvases, and they're also kind of fun.

00:43:12.305 --> 00:43:15.125
The attitude is still rather pleasant and rather fun.

00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:26.100
But what's going to change more and more in postmodernism is the attitude is removed from being so fun and having a good time with the work.

00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:30.580
It's gonna change to increasingly, a criticism in my part.

00:43:32.165 --> 00:43:43.545
I would like to call postmodernism primarily a kind of paint, the mustache on Mona Lisa, which was actually a painting by somebody that will get to.

00:43:46.870 --> 00:43:53.370
But one of the main perhaps the most famous American postmodern artist is an artist named Jeff Koons.

00:43:55.030 --> 00:43:58.970
And here we see this is called the, the balloon lady.

00:43:59.755 --> 00:44:03.135
Those are balloons or this will be balloons, but it's a large sculpture.

00:44:03.595 --> 00:44:09.215
But it's certainly not a celebration of feminine beauty, or beauty anyway.

00:44:09.355 --> 00:44:13.615
It's, some kind of satire.

00:44:16.130 --> 00:44:17.910
Let's look at some more postmodernism.

00:44:19.890 --> 00:44:20.710
Next slide.

00:44:24.370 --> 00:44:29.190
This is an another Jeff Koons, and this is called the balloon dog.

00:44:31.545 --> 00:44:35.325
Funny little nose right at the end.

00:44:36.105 --> 00:44:37.485
But, again, it's a sculpture.

00:44:38.025 --> 00:44:44.845
Another, postmodern sculpture who was kind of fun and and different is Oldenburg.

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.140
And Oldenburg in this sculpture here is called the plug.

00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:51.700
I wonder why.

00:44:53.840 --> 00:45:06.285
But, again, we're back to realism, three dimensions in the object, but it's with this strange, slightly, critical, slightly distancing and ironic attitude.

00:45:07.625 --> 00:45:08.525
Next slide.

00:45:11.305 --> 00:45:12.605
Here's another Oldenburg.

00:45:15.450 --> 00:45:16.890
That's a typewriter eraser.

00:45:16.890 --> 00:45:17.950
You remember them?

00:45:18.250 --> 00:45:18.750
Yeah.

00:45:19.690 --> 00:45:19.850
Yep.

00:45:19.850 --> 00:45:20.590
It's huge.

00:45:23.690 --> 00:45:29.245
Well, Oldenburg also did one with a big lipstick, but 15 feet tall.

00:45:30.985 --> 00:45:33.245
So there's a kind of fun in it all.

00:45:34.825 --> 00:45:40.285
Today, if Oldenburg were a lot of it making these sculptures, he would make a a cell phone.

00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:46.220
20 foot high cell phone where everybody could go and worship.

00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:59.315
And on the right, though, we have a different attitude showing up in postmodernism than just humor or distance.

00:45:59.855 --> 00:46:10.230
This is the probably the most famous of the postmodern artists is a, a British artist named Damien Peirce.

00:46:11.970 --> 00:46:13.990
And this is one of his works of art.

00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:17.350
Again, don't try to buy it.

00:46:17.570 --> 00:46:18.390
That's a new.

00:46:20.210 --> 00:46:21.830
But what's he saying about art?

00:46:22.635 --> 00:46:24.075
Not nothing very good.

00:46:24.075 --> 00:46:24.575
Okay?

00:46:25.035 --> 00:46:26.815
Let's go to the next slide, please.

00:46:29.995 --> 00:46:31.935
This is another Damien Hirst.

00:46:34.395 --> 00:46:41.630
Hirst, One of the things he did, he he would get a cow, cut it in half.

00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:44.830
Now he did all this himself, the butchering or anything.

00:46:45.370 --> 00:46:48.990
He cut it in half, took the skin off of it.

00:46:49.215 --> 00:46:50.175
This was a cow.

00:46:50.175 --> 00:46:55.875
Put half a cow in one of these, glass boxes.

00:46:56.575 --> 00:47:01.395
Sometimes they were lined with aluminum, sometimes with white, like, it's white metal.

00:47:01.990 --> 00:47:10.230
And in that, he put the half a cow in that glass box, filled it up with clear formaldehyde to preserve it.

00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:15.715
Took the other half, did the same thing, but did put it in a different box next to it.

00:47:15.715 --> 00:47:29.175
And then he took a calf, a baby cow, cut it in half, put it in a smaller box right behind this other one and behind the the the the, other other half as well, and called it mother and child.

00:47:31.770 --> 00:47:41.470
This one is the head of a cow that's been skinned, and it was one of 12 all in the same kind of box, and they were called the deciders.

00:47:46.825 --> 00:47:50.125
Also, another postmodern artist, but this is not Damien Hirsch.

00:47:50.345 --> 00:47:59.330
This is a picture of postmodern, painting of the Virgin Mary in which elephant domino was also used.

00:48:00.110 --> 00:48:07.730
And this became rather well known as a kind of mocking, whatever might have been considered, same thing as important.

00:48:08.350 --> 00:48:15.665
That is what's done here by calling this, the disciples, one of 12, they were called the disciples.

00:48:16.045 --> 00:48:19.085
This one is actually called and I think it's something of an error.

00:48:19.085 --> 00:48:22.065
It's called say it was called Saint Paul or just Paul.

00:48:22.205 --> 00:48:27.120
It's not one of the 12, so, you know, I'm sure what your name is correctly, Paul.

00:48:27.980 --> 00:48:31.680
By the way, Damien Hirsch graduated from Catholic High School in London.

00:48:34.460 --> 00:48:37.600
And this was by, an African artist, postmodern.

00:48:38.105 --> 00:48:39.465
It was the Virgin Mary.

00:48:39.465 --> 00:48:44.285
Not a very certainly, level three schematic object recognizable.

00:48:45.145 --> 00:48:51.085
And then, as I said, element of knowledge in the swivel as well.

00:48:52.230 --> 00:48:52.970
Next slide.

00:48:56.550 --> 00:48:58.570
Here are two other postmodern works.

00:48:59.270 --> 00:49:01.910
This one, you can't see it very well.

00:49:01.910 --> 00:49:02.810
It's a crucifix.

00:49:03.590 --> 00:49:08.525
It's in a it's in a container with clear glass sides.

00:49:08.745 --> 00:49:11.965
It's a crucifix, and the red the yellow is urine.

00:49:12.425 --> 00:49:17.805
It's called piss cries, and that's a clear and important post postmodernist's work.

00:49:18.185 --> 00:49:20.525
And it was the urine of the, artist.

00:49:22.590 --> 00:49:28.690
So this is a different aspect of postmodernism, but one of one that was given a great deal of attention actually.

00:49:31.070 --> 00:49:35.410
On the far right, we have one of the last works by Damien Hirst.

00:49:35.790 --> 00:49:42.105
It's a skull, and it's covered with diamonds.

00:49:43.765 --> 00:49:51.065
And when it was sold for, I think, £50,000,000, it was considered the most expensive work of art ever bought by a living art.

00:49:52.070 --> 00:49:58.550
But it's a skull, covered with the the diamonds presumably began to do its work.

00:49:58.550 --> 00:49:59.530
I don't know.

00:50:01.750 --> 00:50:02.730
Next slide.

00:50:08.565 --> 00:50:09.385
Next slide.

00:50:12.885 --> 00:50:13.385
Okay.

00:50:15.605 --> 00:50:27.150
All of this is the postmodern world as far as I'm concerned, ended roughly, again, with the whimper, probably around the year 2000, 2005, something like that.

00:50:27.850 --> 00:50:53.030
This kind of mocking of our this kind of not mocking of things we value, this kind of distancing yourself, even if it's done in a little bit of a fun way, that may step into maybe the most but the negative knocking of our by creating a mustache on on what Belize is, I think, has peaked and has started.

00:50:53.490 --> 00:50:57.190
You know, after all, many of her decisions, he's about 71.

00:50:58.290 --> 00:51:01.590
So, you know, the young artist is is looking for something new.

00:51:02.075 --> 00:51:04.095
We will get to that in a short time.

00:51:04.955 --> 00:51:09.695
But what was going on all along in the art world anyway?

00:51:10.475 --> 00:51:21.190
I'm gonna only focus here on American art, but America has long had a a very powerful tradition of three-dimensional realism.

00:51:22.770 --> 00:51:25.830
Now we'll go back now to the start of modernism.

00:51:26.210 --> 00:51:27.990
We're back around 1900.

00:51:28.465 --> 00:51:32.805
And here is a with the artist here, his name is Tanner.

00:51:34.065 --> 00:51:36.085
He's an African American artist.

00:51:36.465 --> 00:51:39.925
Not well enough known, but he's getting more and more known today.

00:51:39.985 --> 00:51:41.445
He does wonderful stuff.

00:51:41.930 --> 00:51:46.830
And this is one of them here with a couple praying at lunch or at dinner.

00:51:47.210 --> 00:51:58.485
And, in 1900, when the world was going toward cubism in France, he's painting in America something very realistic and very significant.

00:51:59.585 --> 00:52:02.725
And here's another painting by, Tanner.

00:52:05.745 --> 00:52:07.025
It's a famous one.

00:52:07.025 --> 00:52:08.165
It's called the Annunciation.

00:52:10.950 --> 00:52:15.050
He was a very devout Christian, a Protestant.

00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:26.185
And then I noticed this particular image of the Annunciation, which is so wonderful, which he painted later after that, maybe some years after this one, we see him in the left.

00:52:29.445 --> 00:52:31.865
Actually, I even seen it in the Catholic calendar.

00:52:33.205 --> 00:52:35.205
So I don't think anybody can make any attention.

00:52:35.205 --> 00:52:36.345
They were very devout.

00:52:37.930 --> 00:52:39.290
And, obviously, they're very out.

00:52:39.290 --> 00:52:44.590
That's a that's a that's a masterpiece of the painting as well as what's painted.

00:52:47.050 --> 00:52:49.150
Steven was h o Tanner.

00:52:50.330 --> 00:52:51.630
Next slide.

00:52:53.610 --> 00:52:56.005
So So this is going on in the American tradition.

00:52:56.305 --> 00:52:59.825
Of course, these are well known now American realists, and I'm gonna pick up.

00:52:59.825 --> 00:53:08.145
This is, old, Homer Hopper.

00:53:08.145 --> 00:53:08.785
Excuse me.

00:53:08.785 --> 00:53:09.285
Hopper.

00:53:10.110 --> 00:53:10.610
Okay?

00:53:12.110 --> 00:53:25.330
He was painting, these paintings in the same time period that abstract expressionism was around, and people were moving on that not on his trajectory toward uncovering a mixed level of the image.

00:53:25.865 --> 00:53:30.125
He's continuing with realism, plenty of three dimensionality in this.

00:53:30.585 --> 00:53:37.725
These are very well known paintings now, operated until, into the nineteen sixties.

00:53:38.790 --> 00:53:41.050
This is another hopper of a different type.

00:53:41.270 --> 00:53:49.830
But, it shows you that American realism along with the, by Frank Tanner is, alive and well.

00:53:49.830 --> 00:53:50.730
Next slide.

00:53:55.405 --> 00:53:59.825
Another American realized that most of you probably heard of Andrew Wyatt.

00:54:00.525 --> 00:54:02.465
These are two of his famous paintings.

00:54:04.765 --> 00:54:12.940
So here, everybody is going god down in the art world again over modernist art, going toward abstraction and minimalism and minimal art.

00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:16.620
But here's why I have beautiful, realistic paintings.

00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:23.025
This one is, like, you're almost supposed to think that the curtain is really, really out there.

00:54:23.025 --> 00:54:30.245
The bird will venture toward you, that the wind is coming in from the sea, which is why it's important to explain to you.

00:54:30.385 --> 00:54:32.885
So these are famous Wyeth, Andrew Wyeth.

00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:40.340
His father, Nancy Wyeth, is a well known illustrator, and he had a son named Jamie Wyeth who's continuing the realist tradition.

00:54:41.200 --> 00:54:42.020
Next slide.

00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:51.475
Here's another American realist, Bader, who's going against the grain of what was going on in.

00:54:52.095 --> 00:54:54.035
Another African American of this.

00:54:55.055 --> 00:54:56.035
His name is Hendricks.

00:54:56.575 --> 00:54:57.795
They looked at his own.

00:54:57.855 --> 00:55:03.990
He's he's not paying any attention to what's going on in that world of minimalism or postmodern negativity.

00:55:05.090 --> 00:55:21.705
You know, this is what this was done this beautiful portrait was done in 08/1970 at the very at the very time that the, Irwin scrimping, which was all white, and you couldn't even notice it was there, it was being shown.

00:55:22.405 --> 00:55:25.225
So he's holding on to the American tradition of realism.

00:55:25.765 --> 00:55:28.950
And they've they've done a beautiful job of maintaining that.

00:55:29.030 --> 00:55:30.390
And these are two of his paintings.

00:55:30.390 --> 00:55:32.410
That that was done in 1970.

00:55:32.470 --> 00:55:36.250
They were done this one was done, I think, in thirteen eighty something.

00:55:36.390 --> 00:55:38.730
So it was continuing to learn this tradition.

00:55:39.830 --> 00:55:40.330
Okay.

00:55:40.790 --> 00:55:41.610
Next slide.

00:55:44.485 --> 00:55:46.985
Now we're back to today.

00:55:47.285 --> 00:55:50.025
Postmodernism is is, I think, over.

00:55:50.245 --> 00:55:52.825
I don't know that anybody has held a public funeral.

00:55:57.030 --> 00:56:02.330
We can take the crucifix out of this stuff out of this price and put it back where it belongs.

00:56:02.790 --> 00:56:08.810
We can do all sorts of we'll be in another one of the Virgin Mary, which is beautiful again.

00:56:09.315 --> 00:56:11.495
But we don't have to suggest religious realism.

00:56:11.795 --> 00:56:14.135
Realism is bad in a big way.

00:56:14.435 --> 00:56:19.495
And what this means is about is is that the transcendental virtues of that.

00:56:19.875 --> 00:56:20.355
Mhmm.

00:56:20.355 --> 00:56:23.175
Those are beauty, goodness, and truth.

00:56:24.950 --> 00:56:43.685
There's nothing better than more to be more optimistic about it to think that beauty, goodness, and truth are now things for artists to devote themselves to in a way that won't be won't be an issue as to being out in fashion with the with the modernist trajectory and what have you.

00:56:43.685 --> 00:56:46.345
Some people may continue to do abstract works.

00:56:46.405 --> 00:56:47.225
You have them.

00:56:47.525 --> 00:56:55.280
But the main thing is new important artists that are coming today are realists, and they're focusing on goodness and truth and beauty.

00:56:55.740 --> 00:56:59.180
And I think here are just these I'm not mentioning the artists here.

00:56:59.180 --> 00:57:04.220
We we're just gonna look at some examples that I found by chance in my own question.

00:57:04.220 --> 00:57:06.925
And the admirings really.

00:57:06.925 --> 00:57:08.385
I mean, they're still different.

00:57:09.165 --> 00:57:09.965
They're interesting.

00:57:09.965 --> 00:57:10.525
They're different.

00:57:10.525 --> 00:57:18.625
But you sense in in the beauty, you sense that they're truthful, that is they're telling the truth about some reality, and that they're good.

00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:21.350
That what their message is in story.

00:57:21.450 --> 00:57:22.870
The next slide.

00:57:25.330 --> 00:57:28.230
Here's another example of contemporary realism.

00:57:28.930 --> 00:57:29.750
It's beautiful.

00:57:30.610 --> 00:57:31.350
It's good.

00:57:31.730 --> 00:57:32.470
It's truthful.

00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:33.570
What's being shown to you?

00:57:33.570 --> 00:57:34.310
What's real?

00:57:35.225 --> 00:57:39.725
So real that it looks almost like you could bite one of those cherry bits.

00:57:40.025 --> 00:57:40.505
Mhmm.

00:57:40.505 --> 00:57:41.805
Wonder what kind of wine.

00:57:44.905 --> 00:57:51.260
Here's another another realist painting, also very contemporary, showing what's going on now.

00:57:51.640 --> 00:57:53.100
Do we have any more images?

00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:54.860
Where are these the last?

00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:57.180
Next slide.

00:57:59.320 --> 00:57:59.880
Oh, yes.

00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:02.140
Two more realists today.

00:58:05.825 --> 00:58:08.005
Again, very interesting.

00:58:08.065 --> 00:58:11.125
Different, you know, not some sort of standard realism.

00:58:11.345 --> 00:58:17.925
The images are realistic and three-dimensional, but they're very different and new and interesting.

00:58:20.090 --> 00:58:21.550
And this is the last slide.

00:58:23.130 --> 00:58:23.630
Okay?

00:58:24.810 --> 00:58:25.630
Thank you.

00:58:32.905 --> 00:58:33.065
No.

00:58:33.065 --> 00:58:34.205
We should be optimistic.

00:58:34.985 --> 00:58:39.965
We're out of the postmodern we're out of modernist that's been completed.

00:58:40.185 --> 00:58:42.105
We're out of the postmodern period.

00:58:42.105 --> 00:58:50.490
So we're now being able to go back in a very realistically approach, you know, beauty, goodness, and truth.

00:58:51.350 --> 00:58:54.510
It was maintained all along by very important artists.

00:58:54.510 --> 00:58:57.830
I mentioned two that are not well known, but should be.

00:58:57.830 --> 00:58:59.625
One is, Hendrix.

00:59:00.565 --> 00:59:07.305
He he recently died, but he was a black American artist with shingle stature, which also can.

00:59:08.725 --> 00:59:10.025
Any questions now?

00:59:11.340 --> 00:59:13.780
Must have left a few gaps here and there.

00:59:13.780 --> 00:59:21.040
You know, that covered a lot of our histories, but a hundred and seventy years ago.

00:59:22.140 --> 00:59:25.285
Why don't we take questions from the room first, and then we do have some online questions that we can respond to.

00:59:25.285 --> 00:59:28.588
Would you like to sit for the part of the, or would you like to remain respond to.

00:59:28.588 --> 00:59:31.415
Would you like to sit for the part of the, or would you like to remain standing?

00:59:31.415 --> 00:59:32.615
We'll adjust our camera.

00:59:32.615 --> 00:59:33.655
These are online questions.

00:59:33.655 --> 00:59:34.935
Those are from the online people.

00:59:34.935 --> 00:59:35.435
Yeah.

00:59:39.860 --> 00:59:40.180
Okay.

00:59:40.180 --> 00:59:43.160
Any questions from the audience for the problem too?

00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:46.260
I have one.

00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:52.760
Are there any artists today that have actually sort of acknowledged some of what you've kind of gone through?

00:59:53.235 --> 00:59:53.875
I would think.

00:59:53.875 --> 00:59:55.575
I would I would assume so.

00:59:56.035 --> 01:00:02.055
They knew what that those who were traditionalists and painters were quite aware of how they were being socially ostracized.

01:00:02.835 --> 01:00:06.420
And the galleries went and picked them up and tried to sell them a little bit.

01:00:06.500 --> 01:00:13.080
And then after a long time, maybe we'd give us maybe opera or maybe, I don't know.

01:00:14.980 --> 01:00:15.540
I don't know.

01:00:15.540 --> 01:00:15.780
Yeah.

01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:19.460
I think that's, Hendrix got relatively well known.

01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:22.040
By the time he died, he was a well known artist.

01:00:22.795 --> 01:00:29.055
But they knew they were opposed to this minimal abstract stuff, which is an interesting thing.

01:00:29.275 --> 01:00:43.810
But to me, the most important thing about it was one that it showed me the regression and the development of the of the image, which was, in this case, in the service of the ego.

01:00:43.810 --> 01:00:57.285
So it was interesting, even though it didn't represent in an obvious sense, beauty through her goodness, But it did have some of that left, beauty that and truth and goodness as long as it stayed at the schematic level.

01:00:58.785 --> 01:01:04.325
Matisse is almost a lot of Matisse is at the level to be, and it's often very beautiful.

01:01:07.870 --> 01:01:12.030
So you but once they started going into pure geometry, it's okay.

01:01:12.030 --> 01:01:20.725
But what I'm looking for, and then you get to scribbles.

01:01:23.025 --> 01:01:27.685
But it's maybe you wanna have a, you know, some thought, but I'm not very big.

01:01:27.825 --> 01:01:30.885
I mean, Jackson, probably try to buy it for for you.

01:01:34.020 --> 01:01:39.860
So that's interesting in that way, but it isn't it hasn't maintained the the the free trans and.

01:01:39.860 --> 01:01:43.160
So if you put in this beauty, the truth.

01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:46.580
And these artists are aware of that.

01:01:46.580 --> 01:01:49.160
I'm sure it will continue to be black.

01:01:52.095 --> 01:01:55.295
Before we like Any other question here?

01:01:55.295 --> 01:01:55.795
Yeah.

01:01:56.975 --> 01:02:02.255
So I was going to argue about how second probably healthier as we move into twenty first century.

01:02:03.215 --> 01:02:08.870
Is that related to which are serving here with, the postmodern number?

01:02:09.170 --> 01:02:13.590
Now we're engaged in a new cultural moment where, the transcendental are.

01:02:13.890 --> 01:02:15.830
So is that related, or is that true?

01:02:17.105 --> 01:02:34.460
And, doctor, if you're gonna invite you to repeat the question, because doctor The question is I understand that is is modern psychology in any way, particularly the last, say, twenty years in psychology, in any way in sync with what's been happening in painting, which is moving back toward the transcendentals.

01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:35.420
Yes.

01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:38.620
I would say this is a hypothesis.

01:02:41.240 --> 01:02:42.460
I would say yes.

01:02:43.160 --> 01:02:52.265
And the answer to that would be the evidence would be the fact that psychology has moved back to allow religion to be part of it.

01:02:52.405 --> 01:02:55.945
It's moved back to understand the the importance of the virtues themselves.

01:02:58.005 --> 01:02:59.045
Work on the virtues.

01:02:59.045 --> 01:03:04.430
It's been a great contribution to psychology, but the virtues are three of them are the transcendentals.

01:03:04.810 --> 01:03:05.310
Right?

01:03:06.170 --> 01:03:09.950
And he actually includes those in his work as something that should be done.

01:03:10.570 --> 01:03:12.190
Part of what is about.

01:03:14.250 --> 01:03:32.945
So I say I think the same openness to the and the loss of contact with the sort of rigorous modernist, rationalist understanding has has disappeared in psychology as well to be replaced by something that I'm much more optimistic about.

01:03:34.790 --> 01:03:42.170
I'm much more optimistic about the next fifty years of psychology than, would be about the last fifty years.

01:03:42.470 --> 01:03:48.075
Well, at least maybe not let's say, look, from the ninth from the year 2000 back.

01:03:50.135 --> 01:04:01.460
From 2000, modern psychology or contemporary psychology was, I think, moved in a way that's in sync with the art world capturing again with these higher values?

01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:03.860
Good question.

01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:07.440
There's a hypothesis that I'm calling, and this is in sync.

01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:17.775
So does the art in the postmodernism that's which you said is over and back.

01:04:19.355 --> 01:04:27.775
A predictor of what's gonna happen in the general culture later or is it will it follow how Well, here, I'll make another hypothesis.

01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:41.340
Another hypothesis which is much more optimistic than the fact that we it's quite possible that the art world mirrors in advance of the general public.

01:04:42.625 --> 01:04:45.265
You saw examples in the last slide.

01:04:45.265 --> 01:04:46.645
It's a beautiful works.

01:04:47.585 --> 01:04:53.905
Beauty has been beauty and and not only that, the pictures of the of the emails.

01:04:53.905 --> 01:05:00.090
I think I thought of the one, on the right, relatively I I guess she was African American.

01:05:00.090 --> 01:05:00.990
I'm not sure.

01:05:01.130 --> 01:05:02.830
It was really not just beautiful.

01:05:03.050 --> 01:05:12.045
It was it was exhilarating in the sense you recognized the person as good and truthful at the same time.

01:05:13.305 --> 01:05:14.685
And that was in the work.

01:05:14.985 --> 01:05:17.405
We don't have that in our culture at large.

01:05:18.025 --> 01:05:26.380
But maybe it's slowly the culture will line up with art pushing it from one side to the better and psychology from the other side.

01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:37.980
So we could then have in spite of all of our current misgiving stops and worries, something really positive for, I mean, I'm a longer in the future for the culture of life.

01:05:42.925 --> 01:05:43.245
Okay.

01:05:43.245 --> 01:05:45.085
Now I get I get to get to these things.

01:05:45.085 --> 01:05:46.925
I mean, so So you want more questions?

01:05:46.925 --> 01:05:47.965
You have more questions.

01:05:47.965 --> 01:05:48.465
Yes.

01:05:49.725 --> 01:05:55.345
I've you've spoken a number of times about the, the regression being at the service of the.

01:05:55.940 --> 01:05:56.980
I kinda have two parts.

01:05:56.980 --> 01:05:58.740
One, if you could stand on that.

01:05:59.460 --> 01:06:10.280
But second, it seems to me, like, if we take this as a movement, perhaps this very process of regression is at the service of the current ego return to the.

01:06:10.420 --> 01:06:10.920
Yes.

01:06:11.225 --> 01:06:14.505
And I wonder if if that's part of your hypothesis as well.

01:06:14.505 --> 01:06:22.365
What we saw was regression and creation of advantage, which was in the service of being, though, in the case of monarchs.

01:06:23.160 --> 01:06:30.460
But even the existing there is the proposal that I went up and you for the hypothesis.

01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:36.220
That regression in the service of the ego is the essence of creativity of any time.

01:06:37.225 --> 01:06:42.925
And then all the moderners, the the the contemporary painter, the painting is something beautiful and realistic.

01:06:43.625 --> 01:06:45.885
They didn't get that idea easily.

01:06:46.425 --> 01:06:58.810
They even the realist has to regress to realistic images and experiences or understanding in their own past, visions they've had, people they've seen and known.

01:06:59.750 --> 01:07:14.215
They they have to go into their unconscious, find something new and interesting, bring it back up to consciousness, and therefore, bring it back into the service so they can build their artistic talent and their skills.

01:07:14.930 --> 01:07:20.950
And I think that's to be done whether you're in any one of these artists' traditions.

01:07:21.410 --> 01:07:34.845
If you're anomalous, even, you know, you have to regress in some way to the maybe to your own understanding of family life when you were growing up and people and those kind of like and then bring it up and put it in a modern world reaching your town.

01:07:35.225 --> 01:07:52.570
But you can't the an artist who I think I don't wanna be too big, but an artist that I don't think is very creative is I don't know his name, but you've seen him on TV, you know, the one who showed you how to paint a mountain with the big big wave.

01:07:55.070 --> 01:07:59.610
You you know who I'm talking about.

01:08:00.615 --> 01:08:00.935
Again?

01:08:00.935 --> 01:08:01.095
Yeah.

01:08:01.095 --> 01:08:14.315
I mean, there's great talent there and great ability, but the images are all so that that person has talent, but you can't regress to get something interesting to paint.

01:08:14.860 --> 01:08:18.320
You can't regress in your own experience to get something that's interesting.

01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:26.220
Resolving does this paint ways that we're all familiar with in a very quick way.

01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:30.165
And that so that's, our without the progression.

01:08:30.305 --> 01:08:31.365
That's our just.

01:08:36.705 --> 01:08:37.205
Yes.

01:08:37.345 --> 01:08:39.925
So they did go through modernism and postmodernism.

01:08:41.025 --> 01:08:42.565
What would you name the new period?

01:08:43.310 --> 01:08:44.210
The new period?

01:08:46.990 --> 01:08:48.530
You say we're we're past.

01:08:49.310 --> 01:08:49.810
Pardon?

01:08:50.990 --> 01:08:51.310
Yeah.

01:08:51.310 --> 01:08:51.950
We're alright.

01:08:51.950 --> 01:08:53.250
I'm not saying we're past.

01:08:53.710 --> 01:09:00.385
I reality.

01:09:06.045 --> 01:09:15.250
We're back to the something that's real, something that's beautiful and real, good and real and truthful and real.

01:09:16.910 --> 01:09:19.410
Our culture at large is not there yet.

01:09:23.485 --> 01:09:25.185
But I guess that's what I'd caution.

01:09:28.445 --> 01:09:32.305
If you can think of something better, more than five minutes.

01:09:33.325 --> 01:09:34.385
It's not too bad.

01:09:37.770 --> 01:09:38.270
Neorealism.

01:09:39.370 --> 01:09:39.870
Neorealism.

01:09:41.290 --> 01:09:41.790
Neorealism.

01:09:43.210 --> 01:09:43.250
Neorealism.

01:09:43.250 --> 01:09:43.290
Neorealism.

01:09:43.290 --> 01:09:44.270
Neoreal reality.

01:09:44.410 --> 01:09:47.790
Ne we can call it neos, and that makes it sound general.

01:09:51.275 --> 01:09:54.235
So neos then after a while becomes, you know, old.

01:09:54.235 --> 01:09:55.275
So we can then wait.

01:09:55.275 --> 01:09:56.575
So I mean, I'd say neos.

01:09:59.195 --> 01:09:59.435
Yes.

01:09:59.435 --> 01:09:59.835
Yes.

01:09:59.835 --> 01:10:00.735
Still got her.

01:10:04.190 --> 01:10:06.690
Let me see what's written on the chat box.

01:10:22.805 --> 01:10:23.305
Okay.

01:10:23.445 --> 01:10:29.785
Is it better for a child to learn to draw before they learn to paint to to print something like the alphabet?

01:10:30.965 --> 01:10:35.620
Also, does their development of learning to print letters follow the same stages?

01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:52.245
Well, letters first of all, they can begin to pay before they know letters and know anything about, reading the text, most children can begin painting scribbles.

01:10:52.625 --> 01:10:53.125
Right?

01:10:53.505 --> 01:10:56.405
I mean, it's two easily or earlier.

01:10:57.905 --> 01:11:02.340
And then by age three, then most of them are into, schematic objects.

01:11:02.340 --> 01:11:03.300
We recognize, no.

01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:07.000
That's that's you, dad, or whatever.

01:11:07.300 --> 01:11:10.200
They're drawing somebody usually by then.

01:11:10.980 --> 01:11:13.080
And so it starts earlier.

01:11:13.765 --> 01:11:15.925
And so I don't think they come at the same time.

01:11:15.925 --> 01:11:22.985
And for that reason, that they would it would be normal for them to learn to make images before they make, letters.

01:11:23.365 --> 01:11:32.010
And, of course, to make a letter, you've already got to get back past basic excuse, over the basic scribble stage, the letters.

01:11:32.470 --> 01:11:36.630
We've got to get at least into the geometric stage to be able to make the letter.

01:11:36.630 --> 01:11:47.595
And so that's why I think it's probably better to have them learn, to draw off first and then finish this first and then it'll set them up to be able to make, print letters.

01:11:48.375 --> 01:11:50.475
And then you can do it with side by side.

01:11:52.055 --> 01:11:52.935
You saw one of them.

01:11:52.935 --> 01:11:58.750
It was a picture of some like a a girl with a long dress and the family above it.

01:11:58.750 --> 01:11:59.770
It said Emily.

01:12:00.870 --> 01:12:02.090
Emily was printed.

01:12:02.230 --> 01:12:03.910
So I think they could do both of them.

01:12:03.910 --> 01:12:12.495
Once they've gone past the geometric level, not other than that as to whether they should be separated or how to treat them differently or not.

01:12:13.115 --> 01:12:14.015
I don't know.

01:12:22.170 --> 01:12:28.830
To me, I think there are stages in the appreciation of art as opposed to producing.

01:12:36.065 --> 01:12:36.465
Yes.

01:12:36.465 --> 01:12:37.845
But I don't know what they are.

01:12:43.505 --> 01:12:55.470
I would I would people who've had a lot of experience of allowing developing it as an aesthetic appreciation of anything.

01:12:56.250 --> 01:13:04.685
It's clearly that people grow in their appreciation, so there must be, in a sense, certain stages of growth with focus and so on.

01:13:04.825 --> 01:13:15.725
But what they might be, how to approach that, I I think people who have experienced trying to teach the appreciation of art know much more about that than I do.

01:13:16.950 --> 01:13:17.310
Okay.

01:13:17.310 --> 01:13:17.670
Mhmm.

01:13:17.670 --> 01:13:18.490
Nice dissertation.

01:13:28.630 --> 01:13:38.205
Any materials you recommend for a non specialist adult to start appreciating art, and especially the most recent well, you wanna appreciate art.

01:13:38.205 --> 01:13:42.225
I told you, you have to find the person who's been teaching people how to appreciate art.

01:13:42.925 --> 01:13:48.465
And, one of the ways is to talk about one is typical of different art movements.

01:13:48.970 --> 01:13:53.450
But then I gave a very large scale representation of art movements.

01:13:53.450 --> 01:14:06.125
I didn't go into minimal art and the humanist art and all sorts of, you know, the full, and all of the different local names and the different forms of of monitors as it develop.

01:14:07.385 --> 01:14:14.060
That might be helpful for teaching people how to appreciate art, but I'm not so sure.

01:14:14.060 --> 01:14:21.600
I just don't know enough about how to teach people to appreciate art and to give you good advice on where to go to find out how to do it.

01:14:22.380 --> 01:14:25.440
Except find somebody who's done it and see what they said.

01:14:31.005 --> 01:14:35.425
Four, can an individual's emotional mood cause them to regress in their artwork?

01:14:36.365 --> 01:14:40.785
Also, is it possible that individuals are using art to indicate the memory?

01:14:44.310 --> 01:14:44.870
Oh, yes.

01:14:44.870 --> 01:14:55.130
And, yes, emotional, the an emotional mood can be part of your regression.

01:14:55.270 --> 01:15:01.705
Sometimes people regress under regression or even possibly under anxiety.

01:15:03.205 --> 01:15:06.905
It might help you to if you wanted to regress as long as you can come back.

01:15:08.165 --> 01:15:11.525
You don't wanna be regressing just and not being able to come back.

01:15:11.525 --> 01:15:14.480
You don't wanna regress and not come back with the.

01:15:16.220 --> 01:15:17.300
It can affect you.

01:15:17.300 --> 01:15:21.040
I think that's whether you are able to regress.

01:15:21.100 --> 01:15:22.480
People get depressed.

01:15:23.100 --> 01:15:25.280
They're used to thinking about something in advance.

01:15:26.205 --> 01:15:28.065
Worrying about how it might affect the.

01:15:28.365 --> 01:15:29.425
See, what is that?

01:15:29.805 --> 01:15:31.345
Maybe you can paint it.

01:15:33.725 --> 01:15:35.505
I'll give you some funny examples.

01:15:40.070 --> 01:15:44.250
There's something in psychology called the screen memory.

01:15:45.430 --> 01:15:50.250
It was in it was first described in putting the psychological literature by Sigmund Freud.

01:15:50.870 --> 01:15:57.305
This a screen memory is an early memory that screens or covers the trauma.

01:15:58.965 --> 01:16:03.225
So it isn't the trauma itself that we use, right, it's something that covers the trauma.

01:16:03.845 --> 01:16:04.345
Okay?

01:16:09.950 --> 01:16:16.670
In the class, when I described this, I've asked the class, do each member of the class, do you have an early memory?

01:16:16.670 --> 01:16:21.570
Not the earliest necessarily, but an early memory that somehow or other has kept reoccurring.

01:16:23.165 --> 01:16:25.725
You had it this time.

01:16:25.725 --> 01:16:28.145
You know, you may have it over and over again or something.

01:16:29.405 --> 01:16:30.845
If you have it, it's a memory.

01:16:30.845 --> 01:16:31.905
It's not a dream.

01:16:32.125 --> 01:16:36.065
And it's not necessarily the first memory, but it will be an early memory.

01:16:38.150 --> 01:16:43.110
Write it down on a piece of paper, and I collect birth.

01:16:43.110 --> 01:16:45.770
And you talk about what the the screen memory is.

01:16:46.230 --> 01:16:49.930
One out of three this is a portion of the scoring on the telephone.

01:16:50.225 --> 01:16:56.725
One out of three of the screen is is a screen covering an attachment anxiety situation.

01:16:58.385 --> 01:17:04.530
The actual screen when I ask them what what what what I'm on the beach, and I lost where my parents were.

01:17:04.670 --> 01:17:08.930
Suddenly, there were strings around me, and they picked me up, and they found my parents.

01:17:10.110 --> 01:17:16.450
Or, there were two students in a class who were both artists.

01:17:17.625 --> 01:17:20.525
I asked them what was their screen if they had a screen memory.

01:17:21.545 --> 01:17:22.985
One of them came up afterwards.

01:17:22.985 --> 01:17:27.005
He he he said, yeah.

01:17:27.065 --> 01:17:29.485
He said, what are you doing?

01:17:29.865 --> 01:17:31.645
And I'm like, painting fishes.

01:17:32.610 --> 01:17:38.950
Lots of colorful fishes, but depending on what's your earliest dream memory?

01:17:40.050 --> 01:17:44.530
And he said, well, my earliest memories, I'm in the back of the car with my mother.

01:17:44.530 --> 01:17:48.575
My mother and father are arguing with each other and having a fight.

01:17:48.575 --> 01:17:53.235
And one short time later that my father left and my my dad's got a divorce.

01:17:53.935 --> 01:17:54.175
Alright.

01:17:54.175 --> 01:17:56.355
You see the attachment anxiety situation.

01:17:56.495 --> 01:17:56.995
Right?

01:17:58.750 --> 01:18:01.650
And I said, what does that have to do with fish?

01:18:02.830 --> 01:18:03.710
He said, I don't know.

01:18:03.710 --> 01:18:04.690
I don't know why.

01:18:07.870 --> 01:18:12.450
We had just left the Boston of where where the argument had occurred.

01:18:13.070 --> 01:18:13.730
We started.

01:18:16.795 --> 01:18:17.615
Another one.

01:18:18.475 --> 01:18:22.155
Well, I'm talking about how maybe that's the question.

01:18:22.155 --> 01:18:23.135
I want the memory.

01:18:23.435 --> 01:18:25.055
There's another screen memory.

01:18:34.730 --> 01:18:44.585
The the student, who's also an American student, drew a picture, a square, and then around it another square with lines in there.

01:18:44.585 --> 01:18:47.065
And he says that with a baby in the middle of it.

01:18:47.065 --> 01:18:48.765
And he says that baby's me.

01:18:48.825 --> 01:18:57.130
My earliest memories being in a crib with, you know, the the lines of the crib all around me and me looking out.

01:18:58.070 --> 01:19:02.810
And I remember looking out and seeing my father read me and going to work.

01:19:03.590 --> 01:19:08.330
So we had a nice example of a separate, you know, an attachment problem.

01:19:08.995 --> 01:19:09.795
It's not a meeting.

01:19:09.795 --> 01:19:10.515
And he said, yes.

01:19:10.515 --> 01:19:12.295
Later, my father left us altogether.

01:19:13.635 --> 01:19:14.135
Later.

01:19:15.155 --> 01:19:17.955
And I said, alright.

01:19:17.955 --> 01:19:20.295
But what what kind of what part are you doing?

01:19:20.675 --> 01:19:21.815
He said, I'm a photographer.

01:19:22.995 --> 01:19:24.535
Oh, oh, I go, what are you doing?

01:19:25.050 --> 01:19:27.150
I'm taking pictures of New York City.

01:19:28.410 --> 01:19:31.710
And I said, and I'm taking all of the pictures to a grid.

01:19:35.690 --> 01:19:46.005
Just like the world looked at that kid, it was in the book into the the bars of that child contraption in his unit.

01:19:48.225 --> 01:19:51.525
You saw that from the drawing that he made the drawing of the lines.

01:19:52.305 --> 01:19:58.510
We were representing the vertical lines of the of the.

01:20:00.030 --> 01:20:01.510
We're not.

01:20:01.990 --> 01:20:03.470
We're not.

01:20:05.290 --> 01:20:06.040
We're not.

01:20:08.085 --> 01:20:18.405
I've come across other examples of this, but these are examples where two artists' early memories were both related to the attachment of the drama and yet were screening them.

01:20:18.405 --> 01:20:27.330
And yet now been so fascinated them that they felt they had to draw a paint on it or draw a photograph or draw it.

01:20:27.790 --> 01:20:29.330
Does that answer your question?

01:20:33.245 --> 01:20:45.585
I can give you another example of a famous woman sculpture who did the same who had the same manner that her early childhood memory, attachment, fear, attachment loss.

01:20:46.070 --> 01:20:52.890
Now her sculpture, which made her famous, it was a recreation of her earliest attachment to her asperienced.

01:20:58.245 --> 01:20:58.745
Next.

01:21:01.845 --> 01:21:06.585
Were Matisse and Picasso reflecting and expressing some regression of western civilization?

01:21:08.325 --> 01:21:14.400
And such regression, we picked up on a subconscious level by artists who cannot fully understand what we are present.

01:21:15.340 --> 01:21:19.680
That is is it not only personal, but also a wider level of understanding?

01:21:26.205 --> 01:21:27.185
I don't know.

01:21:28.525 --> 01:21:40.625
It would be very interesting if you could point out at the core of Western tradition at that time in France and, other artists here even in The US up to, like, in about 1915 or '17.

01:21:41.410 --> 01:21:47.030
And there was a there was something aggressive going on in the in the world that they were picking up on.

01:21:47.170 --> 01:21:47.810
I don't know.

01:21:47.810 --> 01:21:53.270
It would be a fascinating concept to, identify, but I don't know.

01:22:01.965 --> 01:22:07.025
Have you anything to say about Lascaux and other prehistoric, sites?

01:22:07.085 --> 01:22:11.810
Many modern researchers are saying that these drawings and caves are in a way coded.

01:22:15.070 --> 01:22:17.790
The way in which they're coded, I don't know enough about the answer.

01:22:17.790 --> 01:22:19.970
I do know they're they're trying to do this.

01:22:20.030 --> 01:22:27.485
But I also know that the cave drawings, the first drawings that were there were not those nice animals that were so exciting and and attractive.

01:22:27.785 --> 01:22:29.245
Those were the last ones.

01:22:29.785 --> 01:22:31.725
The first ones was basic scribbles.

01:22:35.065 --> 01:22:40.010
And then straight lines or, you know, patterns of these Clearly not made by animals.

01:22:40.010 --> 01:22:46.110
Animals do not naturally the matrix are by, you don't naturally paint.

01:22:47.050 --> 01:22:51.230
When they do occasionally be given a flat surface, they will do a few scribbles.

01:22:52.605 --> 01:22:58.525
And that's all you can do when you move something that's not really interesting.

01:22:58.525 --> 01:23:05.460
But other than that, I don't know whether there's a sequence of development of the kind that you see in children's drawings that you've been finding.

01:23:05.460 --> 01:23:10.600
You could historically date the distance of the particular examples in the curves.

01:23:11.620 --> 01:23:20.465
There is some evidence that the development of art in the Greco Roman tradition began with simple scribbles and then basic geometric designs.

01:23:20.845 --> 01:23:24.865
He finally turned into schematic objects and finally turned into realism.

01:23:25.325 --> 01:23:30.385
The latest stages of Greek and Roman art were heavily realistic.

01:23:31.830 --> 01:23:35.210
Then there was a cultural collapse in the next best part of the art.

01:23:35.510 --> 01:23:37.210
It was back to the schematics.

01:23:41.590 --> 01:23:43.850
Anyway, these are interesting possibilities.

01:23:44.550 --> 01:23:51.025
I read them for you to have fun with or think about, you know, or tosses.

01:23:52.205 --> 01:23:52.845
They should go.

01:23:52.845 --> 01:23:54.225
You don't waste any of this.

01:24:01.050 --> 01:24:06.750
The aesthetics of Gilson, Marathon, and Hildebrand are quite different.

01:24:07.130 --> 01:24:10.030
Whose view do you most subscribe to?

01:24:11.945 --> 01:24:12.845
I don't know.

01:24:14.745 --> 01:24:21.885
I know there are aesthetics, but I'm not I'm talking about something psychological in the construction of an image.

01:24:22.025 --> 01:24:25.140
I'm not judging whether something is good or aesthetic or not.

01:24:25.140 --> 01:24:36.840
I do think that as long as I'm dealing with the work has to deal with at least schematic objects, recognizable objects, you know, or realism, it'd be really, really interesting.

01:24:37.300 --> 01:24:40.200
But I don't think most of those theories dealt with that issue.

01:24:49.165 --> 01:24:55.105
Architecture is the queen of the arts, but many consider modern buildings ugly and regressive.

01:24:55.930 --> 01:24:58.110
Would you provide a comment on that?

01:25:00.890 --> 01:25:01.390
Yes.

01:25:07.130 --> 01:25:07.785
Well, look.

01:25:08.345 --> 01:25:12.745
A lot of the worst of modernism in art, you you couldn't get down to art.

01:25:12.745 --> 01:25:14.445
You had to have something physical.

01:25:14.985 --> 01:25:17.705
You couldn't be an architect.

01:25:17.705 --> 01:25:20.585
You'd be in conceptual art.

01:25:20.585 --> 01:25:23.005
A conceptual architecture would be nonphysical.

01:25:23.730 --> 01:25:27.910
You couldn't make it just a simple plane, but you could come close to it.

01:25:28.050 --> 01:25:36.230
So with modern art, a lot of it is close to either, geometric patterns.

01:25:37.365 --> 01:25:40.025
You can see a lot of Baudrillon and modern art.

01:25:41.125 --> 01:25:49.465
And you can see a lot of the very plain, well, you know, minimal art.

01:25:49.630 --> 01:25:53.570
Shows a lot of, you know, kind of modern art that now we call motel modern.

01:25:55.710 --> 01:25:58.350
That kind of modern art is not very attractive as art.

01:25:58.350 --> 01:26:00.610
It has lost all decorative characteristics.

01:26:01.390 --> 01:26:03.090
It has lost a lot of the functionality.

01:26:03.995 --> 01:26:09.215
And for example, if we we made every room equal to every other room, that's one of their place books.

01:26:09.435 --> 01:26:11.375
We didn't design in their architecture.

01:26:11.515 --> 01:26:13.595
A kitchen is distinct from the drawing room.

01:26:13.595 --> 01:26:17.855
It's distinct from, you know, our library is distinct from the bedroom.

01:26:20.210 --> 01:26:26.150
They came down with just one they came down with minimal notion of what a room should be.

01:26:27.250 --> 01:26:38.805
So there were similarities between minimalism and, in modern art, and ugliness and regression in the, modernist tradition.

01:26:39.025 --> 01:26:40.165
So there are tradition.

01:26:40.225 --> 01:26:41.845
And I do I would say this.

01:26:42.225 --> 01:26:47.130
Architecture is also now going into a neorealistic movement.

01:26:47.670 --> 01:26:56.870
For about the last twenty years, those really ugly modern things, that anyway, they're all over Europe too.

01:26:57.190 --> 01:26:58.570
They're not being built anymore.

01:26:59.385 --> 01:27:02.605
And when you have a really good architect now, they're often.

01:27:03.465 --> 01:27:08.205
So I think we're seeing some something relatively similar in the world of architecture.

01:27:08.905 --> 01:27:12.445
Still the queen of the arts is also shaped up.

01:27:22.730 --> 01:27:34.985
Do I attribute any meaning to someone like Warhol or Salvador Dali who run the gamut of lesser art like world's Campbell Soupian, who really decide?

01:27:38.325 --> 01:27:40.005
I don't know how to compare them.

01:27:40.165 --> 01:27:44.585
I have trouble with, surrealist art like Salvador Dali.

01:27:44.940 --> 01:27:48.800
He's very three-dimensional, but he's not very realist.

01:27:51.740 --> 01:27:56.480
He makes unreal configurations with a lot of three dimensionality.

01:27:58.300 --> 01:27:59.440
See, with my lead.

01:28:00.825 --> 01:28:03.785
But I have trouble with surrealist art fixing behavior.

01:28:03.785 --> 01:28:06.105
I don't think it fits in my sequence.

01:28:06.105 --> 01:28:12.125
I think it has to be treated separately and how to treat it in any way that would relate to what I'm talking about.

01:28:12.665 --> 01:28:13.485
I don't know.

01:28:15.190 --> 01:28:21.030
Other than seeing any connection between, Salvador Dali and Andy Warhol, no.

01:28:21.030 --> 01:28:22.010
I don't see any.

01:28:23.110 --> 01:28:26.090
But I'm open to evidence if you have it.

01:28:27.910 --> 01:28:28.970
Question 10.

01:28:33.865 --> 01:28:34.365
Okay.

01:28:35.065 --> 01:28:42.525
Rothko also did a stations on the cross, a combination of spiritual things that very low on your scale.

01:28:42.825 --> 01:28:44.285
What do you think of that?

01:28:50.080 --> 01:28:52.740
You can have a very minimal cross.

01:28:55.040 --> 01:29:01.645
And you could have all stations of the cross slightly different Not much I mean, I meant the word shown.

01:29:01.945 --> 01:29:03.965
Rothko would not show a picture of Jesus.

01:29:04.505 --> 01:29:05.945
We're gonna use word.

01:29:05.945 --> 01:29:10.525
You can have a very minimal I'll give you an example.

01:29:10.585 --> 01:29:12.365
They could you can do that.

01:29:12.740 --> 01:29:14.660
I don't think it's the best way to do it.

01:29:14.660 --> 01:29:20.440
You know, I don't think it's communicates the essence of the stations as effective to do most people.

01:29:21.140 --> 01:29:26.200
But you could do it in a way that would be effective for certain kinds of people.

01:29:26.765 --> 01:29:34.625
There was an artist called Ad Reinhardt, and he did paintings that were black on black.

01:29:35.405 --> 01:29:37.965
But what I meant by black on black, it wasn't all black.

01:29:37.965 --> 01:29:39.025
It's one color.

01:29:39.245 --> 01:29:44.330
It would be a black square on top of a slightly less black pattern.

01:29:45.190 --> 01:29:47.450
But he also did some Christian paintings.

01:29:47.750 --> 01:29:56.170
He did a black cross, four black squares of one of the same color and formed the cross on a slightly different black pattern.

01:29:57.885 --> 01:29:59.005
So it was minimal.

01:29:59.005 --> 01:30:00.545
It was a minimal cost.

01:30:03.805 --> 01:30:08.225
That that's the kind of thing I had imagined Rothko doing or something like that.

01:30:09.190 --> 01:30:13.450
Otherwise, he might not even put a cross in his I don't know that word.

01:30:15.430 --> 01:30:25.665
Rothko did do some of his paintings or a Buddhist, church, Buddhist, Buddhist ceremony, you know, or environment.

01:30:25.665 --> 01:30:31.605
And they were very dark and and what you would call, you know, screen color screen paintings.

01:30:31.665 --> 01:30:31.985
Okay?

01:30:31.985 --> 01:30:32.805
Very dark.

01:30:32.945 --> 01:30:36.165
Not as black as the last ones you did before you you had suicide.

01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:39.520
They were more gray and so on.

01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:44.400
And those would be likely to suggest he meditate on Buddhist states.

01:30:44.400 --> 01:30:45.460
That would be okay.

01:30:46.480 --> 01:30:47.300
That makes sense.

01:30:47.440 --> 01:30:50.885
How we would do the stations in the cross for a Christian?

01:30:50.885 --> 01:30:51.365
I don't know.

01:30:51.365 --> 01:30:54.085
And he might have done the right hand right there.

01:30:54.085 --> 01:31:05.550
When there was the end of the cross in a minimal way, it would be possible for a person to meditate on in a way that would be truly Christian is spiritual.

01:31:06.250 --> 01:31:09.390
But it's interesting to be minimal.

01:31:09.770 --> 01:31:15.310
You know, only certain people could respond in an adequate way.

01:31:17.345 --> 01:31:20.705
And so We do have a final question from doctor Scruffoni for you.

01:31:20.705 --> 01:31:21.685
Number one here.

01:31:25.505 --> 01:31:26.725
Hi, doctor Scruffoni.

01:31:40.430 --> 01:31:43.010
We don't have a question from doctor Scott.

01:31:43.710 --> 01:31:44.770
We have three.

01:31:50.565 --> 01:31:50.885
One.

01:31:50.885 --> 01:31:59.705
We have art in the caves of France going back over twenty thousand years that seem to have achieved the realism we are rediscovering today.

01:32:00.430 --> 01:32:04.770
In fact, these sketches are considered evidence of the beginning of higher cognitive thought.

01:32:05.150 --> 01:32:06.930
Are we catching up to the past?

01:32:12.445 --> 01:32:14.465
I would say yes in a certain sense.

01:32:17.005 --> 01:32:24.545
I would argue that historically, there have been times when art has moved from the beginning of the culture that was just starting.

01:32:24.880 --> 01:32:29.600
We're working within that culture now, within that tradition, not outside of it, within it.

01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:37.380
And it has moved from simple stick figures or even geometrics or scribbles up to realism and stopped.

01:32:39.225 --> 01:32:48.845
And I would be happy to see somebody, as I mentioned earlier, who could date all the different images in those caves, in the different caves.

01:32:48.985 --> 01:33:01.270
So we could see possibly that what the caves had drawn on 20,000, you know, let's say 30,000 years ago, then 28,000 years ago, then 25,000 years ago, then 20,000 years ago.

01:33:01.270 --> 01:33:06.010
And see if there were in those cave drawings evidence of such a progression.

01:33:06.605 --> 01:33:18.065
And then in every cave that had any change in its images, if there was that same kind of progression, and maybe from stage one to stage two, maybe stage two to three, maybe just three to four.

01:33:18.870 --> 01:33:28.330
But the realism of the the caves in France is pretty good, but it is not as detailed in-depth as modern mayas are.

01:33:28.790 --> 01:33:36.305
You see the shading on the individual animals, but there's not, really a complete three d representation.

01:33:36.845 --> 01:33:38.065
We don't know why.

01:33:38.445 --> 01:33:41.185
Now now how was that related to the human cognition?

01:33:41.325 --> 01:33:45.585
I think the caves are the sign that the first look.

01:33:45.805 --> 01:33:52.310
I think human beings came into existence about forty thousand years ago.

01:33:53.250 --> 01:33:56.790
They came into existence when human consciousness first occurred.

01:33:58.450 --> 01:34:07.185
And what happened when the first when consciousness first occurred, they also had the ability back to when they began human language.

01:34:09.245 --> 01:34:13.405
Human language would not be picked up when it was first being developed.

01:34:13.405 --> 01:34:16.550
We had no ticket holders to do that.

01:34:16.770 --> 01:34:20.550
But the first sign of the human consciousness would be the human drawings.

01:34:21.810 --> 01:34:33.145
And the fact that we don't have drawings prior than, say, thirty thousand years ago, maybe I mean, there's some debate as to whether certain scribbles are drawn, you know, animals, you know.

01:34:33.285 --> 01:34:41.225
But let's say the earliest scribbles, the first the earliest human beings that we know that are drawings are maybe 30,000 years ago.

01:34:42.530 --> 01:34:47.510
I think that's when human consciousness first arose and when it's human language at the same time.

01:34:48.530 --> 01:34:49.910
That's when death arose.

01:34:51.170 --> 01:34:52.710
That's when death first occurred.

01:34:53.330 --> 01:34:55.110
Animals don't know there's death.

01:34:57.065 --> 01:34:58.025
We know it.

01:34:58.025 --> 01:35:03.885
What we mean by saying death first occurred was when you when when the knowledge of death first occurred.

01:35:05.305 --> 01:35:10.445
There's no reason to think, you know, young very young infants don't know there's death.

01:35:11.350 --> 01:35:12.710
Not a ton of language I think.

01:35:12.710 --> 01:35:18.730
So I think that's when the human consciousness began and when the first human beings began.

01:35:19.830 --> 01:35:20.870
They were the first ones.

01:35:20.870 --> 01:35:22.810
There might have been an Adam and an Eve.

01:35:23.110 --> 01:35:23.605
I I don't know.

01:35:23.605 --> 01:35:25.225
It probably was a small tribe.

01:35:25.685 --> 01:35:29.065
Probably in the guess is probably in North Africa.

01:35:30.165 --> 01:35:42.080
First, you had human consciousness and therefore and but then it spread quickly and very quickly among all the primates who were capable of it once it was could be taught or listened to or heard.

01:35:42.220 --> 01:35:47.920
But somebody had to think of it and had the experience of human consciousness without somebody telling them about it.

01:35:48.780 --> 01:35:50.620
Without somebody talking to them yet.

01:35:50.620 --> 01:35:52.240
Nobody was talking at all.

01:35:53.245 --> 01:35:58.205
And somebody had to first discover they could start talking, and people think they're better than I expected.

01:35:58.205 --> 01:36:02.385
It had to do with the interaction between two very bright primates.

01:36:02.525 --> 01:36:04.465
And somebody bang, hey.

01:36:05.645 --> 01:36:12.810
Time, death, past, future, all sorts of things subject into existence.

01:36:13.750 --> 01:36:20.970
The way you can find out what it was like, read the the story of Helen Keller coming to human consciousness.

01:36:23.045 --> 01:36:27.225
And I think that happened in time in some very smart magnetic.

01:36:28.325 --> 01:36:29.385
Let's say a pair.

01:36:29.445 --> 01:36:32.985
That's my guess.

01:36:33.285 --> 01:36:44.200
So over and over again, then we would get human we would get the revealing of those stages of development when we start at a low level up through through realism.

01:36:47.860 --> 01:36:50.905
Do you know artwork predates words?

01:36:51.205 --> 01:36:55.625
I'm arguing that artwork is the first expression that words have occurred.

01:36:56.085 --> 01:36:57.545
Human language has occurred.

01:36:58.565 --> 01:37:04.985
Human consciousness has occurred in your first expression, probably in words, and then very quickly afterwards, even in law.

01:37:12.590 --> 01:37:16.850
What can you say about the dynamics and statics in the painting you discussed?

01:37:23.245 --> 01:37:23.325
No.

01:37:23.325 --> 01:37:24.785
Thank you very much, Socrates.

01:37:34.870 --> 01:37:35.610
Great, Wes.

01:37:35.830 --> 01:37:40.970
This is the first time I've ever presented this material, so I'm not I'm sure it was done.

01:37:45.205 --> 01:37:50.585
I hope that the basic ideas on an image can be thought of as constructive to four stages.

01:37:51.525 --> 01:37:55.145
The zero level is that, my madness.

01:37:55.925 --> 01:38:01.550
You know, we can regress up and down it as a function of developing as children or developing as artists.

01:38:02.170 --> 01:38:06.990
We we develop up and we can go down in a regressive stage with the mental problems.

01:38:07.370 --> 01:38:09.930
We can sometimes recover from them and go back up.

01:38:09.930 --> 01:38:23.485
And and that the best kind of art is at least have realism or have conceptual art, schematic art, excuse me, schematic art where you can recognize shape, in an object such as the.

01:38:24.185 --> 01:38:28.525
And that the minimum that the minimal are geometry and, well, scribbles.

01:38:29.890 --> 01:38:32.550
You know, you can get some out of it at any point.

01:38:33.490 --> 01:38:42.050
You get there to the other, because you've lost realism and lost the the most important centers you believe in.

01:38:42.610 --> 01:38:51.005
The beauty of the universe is the most, in my jacket, we've also wonderfully expressed in babies in the beginning.

01:38:52.425 --> 01:38:54.125
And then some things would be natural.

01:38:56.505 --> 01:38:57.725
So he removes that.

01:39:03.550 --> 01:39:09.310
I do invite us to continue our conversation over refreshments with the waiters on the side of the room.

01:39:09.310 --> 01:39:10.610
This guy's a good lecture.

01:39:10.670 --> 01:39:11.330
Thank you.