WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.740 We're gonna go ahead and start today's webinar. 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:09.060 If you're here to learn about how to preserve a good heart in times of adversity, you're in the right place. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:15.775 I'm sure that many of you are going through, or hearing about people going through difficult times. 00:00:16.235 --> 00:00:25.535 And, in today's presentation, father Robert will be sharing ways that you can help others overcome those those trials. 00:00:27.195 --> 00:00:27.595 Alright. 00:00:27.595 --> 00:00:28.650 So father Robert. 00:00:29.770 --> 00:00:30.010 Great. 00:00:30.010 --> 00:00:31.770 Thank you so much, Evan. 00:00:31.770 --> 00:00:34.330 It's a great blessing to be able to join you this afternoon. 00:00:34.330 --> 00:00:36.110 My name is father Robert Persuti. 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:42.830 I serve as the program director for the spiritual direction certificate program here at Divine Mercy University. 00:00:45.375 --> 00:00:55.695 And our our theme today, I think, is a relevant theme, and I wanted to offer it not so much from a, academic perspective, though we'll we'll touch on some themes there. 00:00:55.695 --> 00:01:02.770 But above all, kind of on a day to day, maybe, addressing maybe more hearts than our minds. 00:01:04.990 --> 00:01:11.810 And what I invite you let's begin with a, with a prayer just to invite our lord's presence and put ourselves in his presence. 00:01:13.795 --> 00:01:30.100 Lord god, we thank you for your abundant goodness and many blessings in our life, and we invite you, lord, and humbly ask that you always keep us in your presence, especially when life's hardships might tempt us to think that you're far away. 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:43.625 And help our dispositions, help our own goodness, our own reflection of your mercy, help be your presence in the lives of others, especially those who do suffer and who are undergoing trial. 00:01:44.325 --> 00:01:46.345 We ask this through Christ our lord. 00:01:46.565 --> 00:01:46.965 Amen. 00:01:46.965 --> 00:01:51.205 And our lady of Mount Carmel, pray for us in the name of the father and son and holy spirit. 00:01:51.205 --> 00:01:51.705 Amen. 00:01:52.680 --> 00:02:02.060 So we wanted to do today is, I think maybe offer some prayerful reflections on a theme, I think, which is a theme relevant. 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:26.920 And on the one hand, its relevancy is highlighted perhaps by, you know, the current situation many of us are suffering, just with how the world has changed, in these last months, and also the questions of respect and love for one another and our human family. 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:33.060 But also, I think beyond that, I think we understand that these maybe touch us. 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:46.375 The events that we're seeing touch us because in some way, perhaps, we've felt and have very deep experience of our own vulnerability, not only through what we're going through, but in some way, throughout our life. 00:02:48.370 --> 00:02:55.830 So the way we entitled this is and I like to begin with that because I think this perhaps already gives us certain inroads. 00:02:57.170 --> 00:03:00.390 Preserving a good heart in times of adversity. 00:03:02.195 --> 00:03:03.395 And what do we mean by this? 00:03:03.395 --> 00:03:08.135 Well, I think the times of adversity is something prop probably doesn't need a whole lot of explanation. 00:03:09.635 --> 00:03:14.135 You know, a time of adversity is not something we we we realize, we experience. 00:03:14.275 --> 00:03:31.695 We might realize it from the experience, but I think we've all had the experience of, at times, that we're in the presence of an adversary, something of something, some reality that threatens us, something that shakes us, something that unsettles us, something that takes away our peace. 00:03:32.655 --> 00:03:36.015 Could be a situation, could be, I don't know, a person. 00:03:36.015 --> 00:03:41.955 It could be, I don't know what, and perhaps that I don't know what is maybe the the hardest of it. 00:03:42.255 --> 00:03:53.730 And we recognize there are times of it, meaning that, you know, it's we have to journey through part of our pilgrimage of life, maybe not knowing exactly, what the cause of it is, but it's there, and there are times. 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:57.890 And it's not to deny there are also times of nonadversity. 00:03:58.190 --> 00:04:02.385 In fact, perhaps times of peace, times when we feel really accompanied in life. 00:04:03.645 --> 00:04:10.305 And how to preserve a good heart, that's a very telling, title, I think. 00:04:10.685 --> 00:04:14.380 And whoever came up with the title, I think, congratulations there, Ebony. 00:04:14.380 --> 00:04:17.960 I think there's there's a lot of a lot of spiritual wisdom there. 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:28.025 You know, it was it's been said that the heart has a bigger range than our mind. 00:04:29.925 --> 00:04:33.385 Our heart is able to encompass a bigger reality than our mind. 00:04:33.925 --> 00:04:38.665 You know, when you look when you think about the way god made us, our intelligence, it's something incredible. 00:04:38.725 --> 00:04:39.925 It always very limited. 00:04:39.925 --> 00:04:42.425 I mean, you you even look at the advances of science. 00:04:43.510 --> 00:04:54.070 And, you know, if anything about the last hundred fifty years of advance of science and technologies, on the one hand, yeah, we've never known as much as we know, but we never have had as many questions as we have now. 00:04:54.070 --> 00:04:58.905 It's like the more our mind encounters, the more questions, the more we realize we don't know. 00:04:59.765 --> 00:05:03.765 And, you know, what we say about science really about so much of our life. 00:05:03.765 --> 00:05:04.245 You know? 00:05:04.245 --> 00:05:12.380 They say that as you get older, you get a little bit of wisdom, but perhaps that wisdom is is is a realization that there's so much we really don't understand. 00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:14.860 Some some so many things we don't comprehend. 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:15.420 Right? 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:21.260 And so we're not talking about here how to have it all straighten our minds in time of adversity. 00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:23.560 I don't know that such a thing is always possible. 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.285 We're talking about preserving a good heart. 00:05:27.285 --> 00:05:29.145 And what do we mean by our heart? 00:05:30.165 --> 00:05:36.985 The catechism of the church speaks about the heart in its fourth section on prayer. 00:05:38.010 --> 00:05:42.170 And this fourth section on prayer asks a question, what does prayer come from? 00:05:42.170 --> 00:05:43.390 What do we mean by prayer? 00:05:43.450 --> 00:05:50.510 Of course, you know, maybe we've had experience of saying prayer, maybe more than saying prayer, we realize prayer is an encounter. 00:05:51.185 --> 00:05:52.645 It's the ultimate encounter. 00:05:52.785 --> 00:05:54.965 It's the encounter with the living god. 00:05:55.185 --> 00:05:57.585 It's the encounter with the ultimate reality of our life. 00:05:57.585 --> 00:05:59.265 I mean, that's a pretty awesome thing. 00:05:59.265 --> 00:05:59.765 Right? 00:06:00.385 --> 00:06:02.005 Where does that arise from? 00:06:02.465 --> 00:06:17.620 The catechism makes this beautiful point that, you know, at times, we can speak about maybe the conscience, but the Bible, sacred scripture, more often than not speaks about the heart as the wellspring of our encounter with God. 00:06:18.075 --> 00:06:18.955 And what's the heart? 00:06:18.955 --> 00:06:25.935 The heart is that most intimate core of ourselves to which only we and our creator have access. 00:06:26.075 --> 00:06:27.375 It's the place of encounters. 00:06:27.435 --> 00:06:28.395 It's that inner shrine. 00:06:28.395 --> 00:06:30.095 It's that inner temple. 00:06:30.635 --> 00:06:32.975 It's beyond the reach of our reason. 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:35.480 We can't cogitate there. 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:42.040 Our experience that happens down there, so to speak, in our heart, we try to give voice to it. 00:06:42.340 --> 00:06:45.060 But our words in our language can never exhaust it. 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:46.760 I think we've all had that experience. 00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:47.295 Right? 00:06:47.695 --> 00:06:54.095 And at times, some of the the best communication of the deepest things at times we know is silence. 00:06:54.095 --> 00:06:54.595 Right? 00:06:55.935 --> 00:07:06.210 That place, that heart, from where we encounter the living god, and not only encounter the living god, it's beyond the the the, reach of our reason as we mentioned. 00:07:06.270 --> 00:07:09.890 It's even more fundamental than our psychic drives. 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:15.315 There's something more fundamental to us than even depth psychology. 00:07:15.535 --> 00:07:17.215 I don't think you've heard that term. 00:07:17.215 --> 00:07:19.555 You know, it's not only it's not about what it's about. 00:07:19.695 --> 00:07:23.855 At times, our behaviors are manifestations of something more deeper. 00:07:23.855 --> 00:07:24.335 Right? 00:07:24.335 --> 00:07:29.070 The so many the the result of so many experiences of life and relationship. 00:07:29.150 --> 00:07:36.690 But there's something even deeper than that, which is our fundamental core, and that's what we're referring to a good heart. 00:07:37.710 --> 00:07:51.415 So trying to keep ourselves, our innermost selves aligned, if we wanna use that term, even as our ability to piece things together is not always there. 00:07:54.035 --> 00:07:59.255 Do you remember that famous phrase that the heart has reasons which at times reason itself cannot comprehend? 00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:01.380 I'm paraphrasing there a bit. 00:08:01.380 --> 00:08:04.440 But and what do we mean by a good heart? 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:13.080 I'm sure we've all experienced the different movements of our heart, the different emotions of the heart. 00:08:13.175 --> 00:08:16.875 You ever experience a broken heart, deep grief? 00:08:17.175 --> 00:08:22.235 At times, it feels like the heart really like something in there is broken. 00:08:23.655 --> 00:08:24.875 It's a good heart. 00:08:25.655 --> 00:08:27.115 It's a heart of goodness. 00:08:27.670 --> 00:08:29.210 And what do we mean by good goodwill? 00:08:30.390 --> 00:08:31.750 And what do we mean by goodwill? 00:08:31.750 --> 00:08:38.250 Something much more fundamental than just an optimistic orientation towards life. 00:08:38.390 --> 00:08:40.790 It's a willing good for others. 00:08:40.790 --> 00:08:47.225 It's when we speak about goodness, goodness is something that does is not contained within itself. 00:08:48.085 --> 00:08:51.305 It's it's a deployment of our being. 00:08:51.685 --> 00:08:52.825 Excuse that term. 00:08:53.300 --> 00:08:57.160 It's a deployment of our being towards the well-being of others. 00:08:57.460 --> 00:08:57.700 Right? 00:08:57.700 --> 00:09:05.460 It's a we could speak about it as a favorable disposition towards others, as a disposition to love, as a willingness to sacrifice for others. 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:05.860 Right? 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:07.800 Those are all manifestations of it. 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:14.155 But a good heart I mean, we recognize that what we're talking about here really, in some ways, in the ultimate, it's the heart of god. 00:09:14.155 --> 00:09:14.555 Right? 00:09:14.555 --> 00:09:18.495 How do we how do we maintain that godlike heart in times of adversity? 00:09:19.915 --> 00:09:22.920 So for us, you know, what what what does a good heart mean? 00:09:22.920 --> 00:09:33.900 You know, how how can we maintain ourselves open to relationship, open to goodness, open to seeing the fundamental good in others even even in times of adversity? 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:36.345 And how to preserve it? 00:09:36.985 --> 00:09:41.885 Meaning, our tendencies that we might tend to lose a good heart in times of adversity. 00:09:42.345 --> 00:09:45.805 So what does it mean to preserve a good heart in times of adversity? 00:09:46.985 --> 00:09:52.040 And our subtitle here, how to help others through times of trial even as we ourselves undergo trial. 00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:54.440 I mean, maybe that's the way of of saying it. 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:55.020 You know? 00:09:55.400 --> 00:10:05.955 How can that good heart which seeks to help others, pick others up, build others up, be there for others, allow my shoulders to be stood upon for the good of others? 00:10:05.955 --> 00:10:11.255 How do we do that, even as we ourselves undergo trial? 00:10:11.715 --> 00:10:12.915 So let's try to unpack that. 00:10:12.915 --> 00:10:16.480 As you see, there's potentially considerable depth here. 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:16.800 Right? 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:20.900 And, what I propose here is not an answer. 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:29.120 You know, the not that, you know, we're gonna try to get a glass ceiling to which we're gonna try to reach and not move beyond. 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:29.940 Not at all. 00:10:30.255 --> 00:10:32.835 What I wanna try to do here is actually just open a conversation. 00:10:33.055 --> 00:10:42.755 Maybe just kind of unpack a theme and if you will, maybe set a floor, a stage upon which we can walk, run, and jump towards towards an answer, if you will. 00:10:44.880 --> 00:10:46.080 So let's move ahead. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:51.200 At at any point during our presentation here, feel free to interject with questions. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:57.780 I do see some chats coming up, and, Ebony, by all means, is our trusted and kind guide. 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:06.755 And, feel free to kinda jump in at any moment here, maybe with some questions that, that participants and others might be having. 00:11:11.550 --> 00:11:31.865 So this is, ourselves, Ebony, who serves as the marketing communications director here at Divine Mercy University, and, I have the blessing of serving as the program director for a new program, which I'll mention towards the end that, Divine Mercy University is offering, the spiritual certificate spiritual direction certificate program. 00:11:33.525 --> 00:11:36.025 So let's try to unpack this a little bit further. 00:11:37.390 --> 00:11:43.330 You know, when we say maintaining a good heart in times of adversity, what happens in adversity? 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:45.310 What happens in trial? 00:11:45.310 --> 00:11:47.650 What happens when we experience this? 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:50.530 What are we drawn to internally? 00:11:51.790 --> 00:12:03.755 Like, if we were to go within ourselves, if we were trying to do an X-ray of our inner movements, what are what are the patterns that tend to develop when we're in whatever we experience as adversity? 00:12:04.935 --> 00:12:07.835 And how within that can we preserve a good heart? 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:11.400 And with that, how can we help others? 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:15.800 So first of all, let's unpack our experience of trial. 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:24.765 I'm gonna go at this primarily from a theological perspective, but from theology to go to the human. 00:12:29.145 --> 00:12:31.405 And I'll I'll explain what I mean by that. 00:12:32.025 --> 00:12:48.160 So when we speak about trial, if we were to go to sacred scripture, we read in Psalm 22 this, phrase we're very familiar with and which is actually quite remarkable. 00:12:48.380 --> 00:12:52.095 My god, my god, why have you abandoned me? 00:12:52.635 --> 00:12:56.155 Why so far for my call for help, for my cries of anguish? 00:12:56.155 --> 00:13:01.055 My god, I call by day, but you do not answer by night, but I have no relief. 00:13:02.790 --> 00:13:24.055 And Job chapter seven, Job, you remember the story of Job who was being allowed God allowed him to be tried by Satan, by the adversary, and how in a matter of a day, Job's life became came apart at the seams. 00:13:24.915 --> 00:13:29.175 And every possible adversity which Job could face, he was facing. 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:40.010 And in chapter seven where he begins to unpack his experience, he begins with this, is life is not life on earth a drudgery? 00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:43.455 Certain translations render that a battle. 00:13:43.775 --> 00:13:46.595 Certain translations render render it a service. 00:13:47.615 --> 00:13:51.475 There's parallels to military service in the ancient world. 00:13:51.535 --> 00:13:53.855 Might that be what Job is referring to? 00:13:53.855 --> 00:13:59.040 It's like this, you know, life is like this evil we have to face, and you can't get around it. 00:13:59.200 --> 00:13:59.700 Right? 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.080 And so Job here and and Job, let's make a note here. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.020 He's not in despair. 00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:12.180 At a certain point, he says, I know my redeemer lives, but nonetheless, is life on earth not a drudgery? 00:14:13.595 --> 00:14:16.875 So kinda starting with this, what do we have here? 00:14:16.875 --> 00:14:18.815 Well, we we have a couple of things. 00:14:19.435 --> 00:14:30.360 One is an experience of deep desolation, an experience of deep trial, an experience of trial of been a very adverse situation. 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.120 And I think we can identify with this. 00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:36.440 You know, the causes of it could be multiform. 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:41.800 It could be physical, physical elements, physical difficulties, illnesses. 00:14:42.565 --> 00:14:45.625 It could be the awareness of one's mortality, one's limitedness. 00:14:46.485 --> 00:14:48.265 It could be the decline in years. 00:14:49.365 --> 00:14:56.820 More often than not, because the way god created us, we develop in relationship with others. 00:14:56.820 --> 00:15:02.280 More often than not, our experience of trial is often result of relationships or broken relationships. 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:03.060 Right? 00:15:03.060 --> 00:15:05.080 Or what we experience is broken relationships. 00:15:06.900 --> 00:15:13.135 Something that it just it's it's it's it's something's missing, something some hurt. 00:15:14.075 --> 00:15:21.195 It could be and this is not to make a culpable or moral judgment on people, but, you know, we we are limited. 00:15:21.195 --> 00:15:21.435 Right? 00:15:21.435 --> 00:15:29.780 And it can be that at times in our experience with one another, even as well meaning as we are, we can become a source of trial and adversity for others. 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.280 It could be, you know, some of the most fundamental relationships when we were young weren't quite there. 00:15:35.280 --> 00:15:35.520 Right? 00:15:35.520 --> 00:15:41.285 And we kinda carry a certain memory, an emotional memory, of those things. 00:15:41.985 --> 00:15:49.845 It could be, you know, that we we feel disconnected from the ultimate reality that we call god. 00:15:50.225 --> 00:15:50.725 Right? 00:15:51.450 --> 00:16:09.825 And in a certain sense, I mean, the Psalm 22, I think, expresses it at its height, not only because this is the Psalm that's ascribed to Jesus as he was dying, crucified on the cross, and we think about adversity, I mean, is could we think about anything more adverse than that? 00:16:10.445 --> 00:16:17.185 And, you know, particularly in contrast with someone who's never caused any adversity to anyone, Christ our lord. 00:16:18.210 --> 00:16:19.970 And, you know, allow this to speak. 00:16:19.970 --> 00:16:21.330 This is so very powerful. 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:23.330 My god, my god, why have you abandoned me? 00:16:23.330 --> 00:16:30.390 At the end, really, what the language of adversity is is I've, I feel abandoned. 00:16:31.225 --> 00:16:32.205 I feel neglected. 00:16:32.585 --> 00:16:33.645 I feel forgotten. 00:16:33.785 --> 00:16:35.145 I feel without meaning. 00:16:35.145 --> 00:16:39.145 I feel like I'm on thrown on life, and I got nowhere to turn. 00:16:39.145 --> 00:16:40.525 I'm completely disoriented. 00:16:41.625 --> 00:16:41.785 Right? 00:16:43.400 --> 00:16:45.980 And all around me, I see is it's hostile. 00:16:46.680 --> 00:16:48.680 I see myself disintegrating here. 00:16:48.680 --> 00:16:52.360 I see myself marching not towards life, but towards death. 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.940 And maybe not a physical death, but a type of disintegration. 00:16:55.575 --> 00:16:55.975 Right? 00:16:55.975 --> 00:16:57.495 That's the experience of adversity. 00:16:57.495 --> 00:16:59.515 That's the experience of trial, isn't it? 00:17:01.895 --> 00:17:21.070 The reason I chose the Psalms was, not to go off on too far a tangent, but at times, we have certain experiences where our sense of reverence of God might not allow certain emotions or certain feelings to come to the surface. 00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:25.370 And the Psalms teach us it's okay for them to come to the surface. 00:17:25.370 --> 00:17:26.505 What type of feelings? 00:17:27.385 --> 00:17:28.745 I feel angry at God. 00:17:28.745 --> 00:17:30.445 I feel abandoned by God. 00:17:30.505 --> 00:17:32.825 I feel like God is not being faithful to his promise. 00:17:32.825 --> 00:17:36.265 And I'm using a lot of God language here. 00:17:36.265 --> 00:17:37.705 Let's make it very clear. 00:17:37.705 --> 00:17:41.520 Everyone experiences these, even those that don't believe in God. 00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:42.000 Why? 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.980 Everyone has a reference point to an ultimate meaning. 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:46.980 That's God. 00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:47.440 Right? 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.700 I mean, we obviously believe in a personal God who's revealed in Jesus Christ. 00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:54.675 But in some way, this is the human experience. 00:17:55.055 --> 00:17:57.075 That there are moments when we face adversity. 00:17:57.295 --> 00:17:57.615 Right? 00:17:57.615 --> 00:18:09.500 And where, you know, even those that don't have any believe believe that there is no god face the fact that at times the main of their existence is is fundamentally questioned. 00:18:09.560 --> 00:18:10.060 Right? 00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:22.460 And how the Psalms and the beautiful way pope Benedict expresses it, it's like god it's like a parent teaching a child how to speak. 00:18:22.605 --> 00:18:25.265 The child doesn't have expressions or words. 00:18:25.325 --> 00:18:35.940 The parent teaches, and the child appropriates and makes his own and uses the and uses the words and the language that he learns from his or her parents to express what's on his heart. 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:43.320 We don't often know how to express or pray or express to God or just express certain things which are very deep. 00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:47.800 The beauty of the Psalms and sacred scripture is that it teaches us. 00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:54.875 And this is why I think sacred scripture, obviously, besides being the word of God, it's the word of man in a very deep way. 00:18:55.175 --> 00:18:55.575 Right? 00:18:55.575 --> 00:19:00.875 Because only God knows what's in the depths of the human heart, and God here uses the human language. 00:19:01.815 --> 00:19:07.240 So in some way, part of, I think, of and maybe this is already an initial pathway. 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:11.400 How do we begin to experience a good heart in times of trial? 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.040 Allow yourself to feel that trial. 00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:17.125 I mean, meaning, let's not deny it. 00:19:17.125 --> 00:19:18.725 Let's not try to pretty it up. 00:19:18.725 --> 00:19:28.825 Let's not try to, you know, I don't know, cheaply put a silver lining on what is a a very, menacing storm cloud. 00:19:29.410 --> 00:19:31.990 We saw ourselves to really experience it. 00:19:33.010 --> 00:19:33.330 Yeah. 00:19:33.330 --> 00:19:36.290 You know, it's it's it's lifetimes is hard. 00:19:36.290 --> 00:19:37.410 At times prayer is hard. 00:19:37.410 --> 00:19:38.390 At times relationships. 00:19:38.690 --> 00:19:39.190 Right? 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:44.885 So it seems like god gives us a permission to experience trial. 00:19:44.945 --> 00:19:45.265 Right? 00:19:45.265 --> 00:20:02.650 And to not allow a sense of reverence or a sense that I have to have it all together to keep us from owning up to the fact that, yeah, there there there are there are difficulties there. 00:20:04.790 --> 00:20:06.490 We could even amplify this. 00:20:06.710 --> 00:20:14.795 Scriptures replete with, many references to trial to adversity. 00:20:15.495 --> 00:20:18.715 Just wanna kinda pick up a few a few on a few themes. 00:20:19.975 --> 00:20:40.965 In Acts 14, when Paul and Barnabas are returning from their first missionary journey, they had to, they we read that they strengthened the spirits of the disciples and exhorted them to persevere in the faith saying, it is necessary for us to undergo many hardships to enter the kingdom of God. 00:20:43.745 --> 00:20:52.805 I always found this phrase, like, really interesting because you notice the phrase they strengthened and they exhorted. 00:20:53.590 --> 00:21:00.010 So think about Paul and Barnabas strengthening a community or yourself strengthening somebody. 00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:01.590 Would you use these words? 00:21:01.590 --> 00:21:04.410 It's necessary for under to undergo many hardships. 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:07.685 Like like, you know, I wanna make your day. 00:21:07.685 --> 00:21:08.805 I wanna make you happy. 00:21:08.805 --> 00:21:10.085 And what I'm gonna tell you is, hey. 00:21:10.085 --> 00:21:11.525 You have to undergo many hardships. 00:21:11.525 --> 00:21:15.205 I mean, it sounds like it's to be the opposite of what you're what you're saying. 00:21:15.205 --> 00:21:15.705 Right? 00:21:16.245 --> 00:21:25.920 And yet, isn't this maybe just a confirmation and a giving permission and raising hope to the fact, yeah, life has its hardships. 00:21:26.060 --> 00:21:27.260 Life has its trials. 00:21:27.260 --> 00:21:28.080 But you know what? 00:21:28.620 --> 00:21:29.520 They're a pathway. 00:21:30.860 --> 00:21:43.105 And maybe there's something there that enter that addresses one of the most fundamental movements of the human heart that we're tempted to in the midst of hardships. 00:21:44.285 --> 00:21:48.705 It doesn't have meaning, and I begin to lose my hope. 00:21:49.005 --> 00:21:49.245 Right? 00:21:49.245 --> 00:21:51.180 In here, Paul and Barnabas are so no. 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:51.580 No. 00:21:51.580 --> 00:21:57.900 If you're experiencing hardship, if you're experiencing that there are difficulties, there are trials, don't be afraid. 00:21:57.900 --> 00:21:58.780 You're on the right path. 00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:01.360 We have to undergo those to enter the kingdom of God. 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:08.495 So, you know, it might be normalizing the experience, allowing ourselves permission to kinda be there. 00:22:08.495 --> 00:22:08.895 Right? 00:22:08.895 --> 00:22:16.355 It's it's there's it's not a sign that that something is fundamentally wrong or that somehow that god has cut and run on us. 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:29.860 Too bad we can't spend a little bit more time here, but, the exegesis on this on this acts 14 is that Paul and Barnabas just went through the town of Lystra. 00:22:31.085 --> 00:22:37.405 And in the town of Lystra, they had two different experiences, one on the way through and and and then on the way back. 00:22:37.405 --> 00:22:45.630 But on the way through, Paul and Barnabas, this is where the place where they were hailed as gods because they they performed the miracle. 00:22:46.090 --> 00:22:49.550 And the whole town was acclaimed in them as Zeus and Hermes. 00:22:50.090 --> 00:22:52.510 I mean, think about the pinnacle of elation. 00:22:52.570 --> 00:22:54.030 They're being treated as gods. 00:22:54.650 --> 00:23:01.115 And then in a matter of few of a few days, the whole town turns on him, and they stone Paul to in leaving him for dead. 00:23:01.335 --> 00:23:08.855 So they go from the height of elation to the depth of being persecuted and stoned, k, in a matter of a few days. 00:23:08.855 --> 00:23:11.675 And this is when they kinda come up with this phrase. 00:23:12.510 --> 00:23:16.050 So it's interesting that even as they themselves are experiencing the hardship. 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:23.090 Romans 12, rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, and persevere in prayer. 00:23:24.190 --> 00:23:28.985 Notice those three words, how they go together, hope, afflict, and prayer. 00:23:30.165 --> 00:23:33.065 Somehow those three, I think, are very connected. 00:23:34.165 --> 00:23:36.825 And to rejoice, endure, and persevere. 00:23:38.085 --> 00:23:38.825 To rejoice. 00:23:39.925 --> 00:23:41.465 We don't rejoice in the affliction. 00:23:41.525 --> 00:23:44.150 In affliction, it's to endure and to persevere. 00:23:44.610 --> 00:23:47.110 So to endure an affliction means be patient. 00:23:47.570 --> 00:23:50.710 You know, when you're enduring, realize good times will come. 00:23:50.850 --> 00:23:51.810 This has a meaning. 00:23:51.810 --> 00:23:52.710 This has a purpose. 00:23:53.250 --> 00:23:54.450 Persevere in prayer. 00:23:54.450 --> 00:23:56.325 You know, keep at it in the good things. 00:23:56.405 --> 00:24:02.425 Keep at it in keeping ourself in the presence of god, and rejoice in hope, your hope. 00:24:03.365 --> 00:24:07.865 And in John 16, I've told you this so that you might have peace in me. 00:24:08.325 --> 00:24:10.405 In the world, you will have trouble, but take courage. 00:24:10.405 --> 00:24:12.910 I've over I've I've conquered the world. 00:24:12.910 --> 00:24:14.130 I've overcome the world. 00:24:16.350 --> 00:24:24.850 I I think with that phrase, and Jesus saying this the night before he was crucified, I think is very telling. 00:24:28.095 --> 00:24:31.075 I've told you this so you might have peace in me. 00:24:31.615 --> 00:24:34.035 In the world, you will have trouble in the world. 00:24:35.135 --> 00:24:36.035 But take courage. 00:24:36.095 --> 00:24:37.475 I've conquered the world. 00:24:38.895 --> 00:24:45.370 So trials and adversity seem to be an ordinary part of the life of one who seeks god. 00:24:47.350 --> 00:24:52.330 We could actually say trial and adversity seem to be an ordinary part of life, period. 00:24:53.030 --> 00:24:54.170 Isn't that the case? 00:24:55.435 --> 00:24:59.055 Perhaps it accentuates it of those one who seeks god. 00:25:00.475 --> 00:25:04.955 So let let's further this, a little bit more. 00:25:04.955 --> 00:25:06.815 So it is true there. 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:14.250 And yet Jesus teaches us lead us not into temptation or lead us not into trial. 00:25:17.030 --> 00:25:24.385 Pope Benedict and his Jesus in Nazareth where he looks at the the our father has a very telling insight here. 00:25:24.445 --> 00:25:32.705 Says when we pray this petition, we must be ready to take upon ourself the burden of trial that is meted out to us. 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:37.240 That's a a very interesting phrase. 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:44.280 It could it could even be a little bit unsettling, but that there's a certain amount of trial that each of us need to undergo. 00:25:44.280 --> 00:25:46.380 And what's the purpose of trial? 00:25:50.915 --> 00:25:58.135 You know, regardless of how we experience adversity, we see it in a natural world. 00:25:58.275 --> 00:26:00.135 We've experienced it in our lives. 00:26:00.275 --> 00:26:07.540 And certainly, under the purview of the of God's presence, every trial is meant to be a pathway for growth. 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.540 It's meant to be a pathway. 00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:14.900 Every adversity is meant to be a pathway that stretches us and allows us to grow. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:22.655 So we must be ready to take upon ourselves the burden of trial, and there's a recognition yet time we do experience it like a burden. 00:26:22.655 --> 00:26:24.515 We do experience it as a trial. 00:26:25.215 --> 00:26:31.940 On the other hand, the object of this petition is to ask God not to meet out more than we bear, to not let us slip from his hands. 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.280 This is very beautiful. 00:26:33.280 --> 00:26:37.540 It's an awareness that, of course, God is not gonna let us slip out of his hands. 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:45.765 But our willingness to stay in his hands obviously has to be there. 00:26:45.845 --> 00:26:53.385 And almost what we're asking him is, lord, I believe this is for me, but give me strength so that I myself don't slip out of your hands. 00:26:54.245 --> 00:27:04.000 Saint Paul has assured us, god is faithful and will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the means of escape that you may be able to endure it. 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:06.320 You may be able to endure it. 00:27:10.060 --> 00:27:17.115 So Saint Paul here points to something very, very, very, very deep. 00:27:17.895 --> 00:27:21.995 That on the one hand, god does try us. 00:27:22.135 --> 00:27:22.375 Yeah. 00:27:22.375 --> 00:27:25.995 On one hand, god does permit us to undergo adversity. 00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:29.420 Now it seems like, father, you're making a bit of a jump here. 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:33.260 We were just talking about hard circumstances and how the adversity of god. 00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:35.760 I mean I mean, let's kinda face it. 00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:46.685 Either there is a god who he is, who we believe he is, that he's creator, that he's lord, that he's provident, that he's all powerful and all knowing. 00:27:49.385 --> 00:27:56.870 And, you know, when we experience evil, the evil of adversity, How do you hold those two together? 00:27:58.050 --> 00:28:05.670 I mean, in a certain sense, let's not be afraid to push that because I think in pushing those things is how we get the answer. 00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:07.965 Our temptation is always to retreat from it. 00:28:08.445 --> 00:28:19.005 That it's either you know, it's not really so bad and you could just kind of grin and grin and bear it or that somehow god, you know, try to kind of put those two together. 00:28:19.005 --> 00:28:35.385 But the reality is if god if if if evil is permitted a certain amount of action, however we experience it, how many socially, personally, right, relationally, it's it's all an experience of evil, of a shortcoming. 00:28:35.385 --> 00:28:38.185 It's not to say that people that are doing it are evil. 00:28:38.185 --> 00:28:38.585 Right? 00:28:38.585 --> 00:28:41.145 At times, they're as much suffering it as others. 00:28:41.145 --> 00:28:41.645 Right? 00:28:41.705 --> 00:28:47.040 But the fact the situation, right, the the the fact that something is broken, something is not right about this. 00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:49.780 Why does god permit that? 00:28:51.840 --> 00:28:54.320 And I I think that's a question we really need to ask. 00:28:54.320 --> 00:29:01.365 I think and I think unless we get to that question, we really won't have that's the doorway to meaning. 00:29:01.365 --> 00:29:03.205 That's the doorway to enduring. 00:29:03.205 --> 00:29:04.105 That's the doorway. 00:29:05.205 --> 00:29:11.065 And, again, there I don't know that we can get an intellectual answer. 00:29:11.605 --> 00:29:11.925 Right? 00:29:11.925 --> 00:29:13.680 An intellectual answer there. 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.840 It might open a doorway for our hearts to go through, and that's important. 00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:18.340 Right? 00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:36.725 And what's an important doorway there that, you know, maybe god is so good and so great and so prominent that he allows evil in our lives, a certain measure of it, because he does limit it, to bring us to a greater good. 00:29:37.585 --> 00:29:40.740 Is it possible that he could turn it into a fuel for good? 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:42.340 Right? 00:29:42.340 --> 00:29:50.520 And that's kinda maybe the how how our understanding gave it space, then it allows our heart to go through. 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.375 There's a section in Deuteronomy, the book of Deuteronomy. 00:29:56.435 --> 00:29:57.815 It's Deuteronomy eight. 00:29:58.755 --> 00:30:06.835 When Moses is near the end of his life, the children of Israel are about to reach the promised land, and he's remembering for them. 00:30:06.835 --> 00:30:07.335 Remember. 00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:09.540 Remember what these forty years have been like. 00:30:09.540 --> 00:30:50.520 And he remembers the great events, the the hardships in Egypt, four hundred years of of cruel tyranny, how they cried to God, and how he led them out, how he allowed them to experience, the fury of pharaoh, how he opened the way through the Red Sea, how he was for them a pillar of fire by night to warm them, in that cold desert, and a cloud of smoke by day to shield them from the burning sun of the desert. 00:30:50.955 --> 00:30:52.795 How for forty years, he sustained them. 00:30:52.795 --> 00:31:06.270 And Moses said, remember how he caused you to to feel hunger, to suffer hunger, but then he bred you fed you with manna, bread from heaven that was known neither to you nor your fathers. 00:31:07.230 --> 00:31:14.210 Look at this desert, this place where there are fiery serpents and deadly scorpions, and he sustained you here. 00:31:14.830 --> 00:31:19.330 The clothes on your back were not worn out and the sandals on your feet have not worn away. 00:31:20.615 --> 00:31:25.435 And so this is to remember that that god is the one who sustains you. 00:31:26.215 --> 00:31:38.440 And in a certain sense, is it that through the experience of trial, god is bringing us to a place where he can reveal who he is for us. 00:31:40.340 --> 00:31:54.195 And, again, you know, this is not to propose the the final, endpoint we're trying to go to, but maybe it's just a question of, you know, when God allows certain, certain temptations. 00:31:58.335 --> 00:32:02.515 Of course, our hope is we say, the scripture itself presents it. 00:32:04.390 --> 00:32:07.270 I come to these because they seem to be so very telling. 00:32:07.270 --> 00:32:14.970 Genesis 16 and Genesis 22 bring out the themes which are very present in the Old Testament in which Jesus picks up on. 00:32:15.350 --> 00:32:17.690 Genesis 16 is a story of Hagar. 00:32:18.215 --> 00:32:31.355 Remember the Egyptian servant of Sarah who's abused when she's with child, when when she's with Ishmael, and and how she begins to run away. 00:32:31.495 --> 00:32:34.220 She she feels alone, desolate. 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:41.740 And the angel of the Lord appears to her and answers her and consoles her. 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:48.585 And to the Lord who spoke to her, she gave a name saying, you are the God who sees me. 00:32:48.585 --> 00:32:50.205 You are a god who sees me. 00:32:51.545 --> 00:33:02.605 What was it about Hagar's experience that when she felt most alone, most under trial, when she was at wit's end, she experienced god as a god who sees her. 00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:07.100 And the god who sees and provides. 00:33:08.120 --> 00:33:13.500 We get the same expression from Genesis 22 when Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac. 00:33:13.800 --> 00:33:14.680 Talk about trial. 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:18.855 Talk about, you know, take your only son. 00:33:18.855 --> 00:33:20.635 And this was the son of the promise. 00:33:20.695 --> 00:33:20.935 Right? 00:33:20.935 --> 00:33:26.215 It wasn't just a boy that in which Abraham would have had his natural hopes. 00:33:26.215 --> 00:33:28.635 This was the sign of God's friendship with Abraham. 00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:29.620 Remember? 00:33:30.320 --> 00:33:32.980 And God is asking him to sacrifice Isaac. 00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:36.820 And, you know, talk is that a trial? 00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:39.700 Could there be anything worse? 00:33:40.560 --> 00:33:45.255 And when his son asked him, father, we have the flint. 00:33:45.255 --> 00:33:46.135 We have the fire. 00:33:46.135 --> 00:33:47.035 We have the wood. 00:33:47.415 --> 00:33:48.475 Where is the sheep? 00:33:50.135 --> 00:33:54.475 And Abraham, the lord himself will provide the sheep, and he did. 00:33:55.495 --> 00:34:03.990 And Abraham, at the end of it all, named the place on the mountain the Lord see because the Lord saw and he provided. 00:34:04.130 --> 00:34:06.790 There he provided the ram. 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:09.010 So who is it? 00:34:09.010 --> 00:34:14.585 You know, this experience, the hope that scripture gives to us that god sees, that he'll provide. 00:34:15.685 --> 00:34:16.965 And what does he do? 00:34:16.965 --> 00:34:29.760 He gives sufficient to to endure, to make it to the other side, and and making it to the other side to experience, to be able to enter into deeper relationship with him. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.460 Jesus recognizes in Luke 12 that we do worry. 00:34:33.520 --> 00:34:34.580 We do get anxious. 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.660 And Jesus reassures us. 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.280 You know, he he doesn't say, you know, don't worry. 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:43.060 You know, those the enemies, the adversities, they're not really that bad. 00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:43.840 You know? 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.675 It's just he just says, yeah. 00:34:45.675 --> 00:34:48.255 They're I recognize there's there's anxiety. 00:34:48.315 --> 00:34:49.135 There's adversity. 00:34:50.075 --> 00:34:52.575 Remember this, the hairs of your head have been counted. 00:34:52.955 --> 00:34:57.135 In other words, the father sees you, and he notices you. 00:34:57.290 --> 00:35:00.810 And not only does he notice you, he notices everything about you. 00:35:00.810 --> 00:35:02.170 Notice he notice everything about you. 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:04.430 He values even the hairs of your head. 00:35:04.970 --> 00:35:06.030 Do not be afraid. 00:35:08.490 --> 00:35:18.585 And in Mark 14, because Jesus teaches us not only by moral example, he is the one who puts it all into practice. 00:35:20.005 --> 00:35:24.585 In the Garden Of Gethsemane, he says, my soul is sorrowful till death. 00:35:25.910 --> 00:35:39.605 And Jesus and his passion is in some way the fulfillment in the negative sense of every trial of every adversity, physical, emotional, moral, in every way. 00:35:40.865 --> 00:35:43.985 He advanced a little and fell to the ground, and he prayed. 00:35:43.985 --> 00:35:47.745 And this is this is one of the few times when we hear Jesus pray. 00:35:47.825 --> 00:35:50.965 Well, we we read in the scriptures many times he prays. 00:35:51.630 --> 00:35:58.270 Here in the gospel of Mark and Gethsemane is one of the few times we hear, Abba, father, all things are possible for you. 00:35:58.270 --> 00:36:00.750 Take this cup from me, but not what I will, but you will. 00:36:00.750 --> 00:36:03.570 Notice how he refers to his father, daddy. 00:36:04.965 --> 00:36:08.485 In this moment of most extreme trial, what does Jesus do? 00:36:08.485 --> 00:36:14.405 He reaffirms, I know you see me, my god, and I know you see this cup. 00:36:14.405 --> 00:36:16.265 I know you see everything that's happening. 00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:19.030 If it's possible, take it from me. 00:36:19.570 --> 00:36:21.270 And yet, your will be done. 00:36:26.290 --> 00:36:28.230 You know, what are possible avenues? 00:36:29.055 --> 00:36:32.195 Ponder, where is God when we suffer? 00:36:35.135 --> 00:36:40.755 Psalm 18, which is a psalm of David when he was being persecuted by Saul in the wilderness. 00:36:42.470 --> 00:36:44.730 David uses some very poetic language. 00:36:46.390 --> 00:36:48.070 The cords of death encompassed me. 00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:50.230 The torrents of destruction terrified me. 00:36:50.230 --> 00:36:54.010 The cords of Sheol Sheol was a place of death. 00:36:55.625 --> 00:36:59.245 In my distress, I called to the Lord, and he heard my voice. 00:36:59.865 --> 00:37:06.605 And even Psalm 22, it's very interesting that that part that my God, my God, why have you abandoned me? 00:37:06.950 --> 00:37:10.470 Yet there's a deep affirmation that you are enthroned as the holy one. 00:37:10.470 --> 00:37:13.190 You are the glory of Israel, and you, our fathers, trusted. 00:37:13.190 --> 00:37:15.930 They trusted, and you rescued them. 00:37:16.870 --> 00:37:22.755 So some possible avenues are this, you know, that to be able to hold both things in our hands. 00:37:23.315 --> 00:37:37.170 On the one hand, the experience of adversity, but also the hope the hope the theological hope, the that God sees, and God has an answer, and God is doing something with us. 00:37:37.970 --> 00:37:42.230 That God in him, my redeemer, the one who sets things right. 00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:46.930 Pope Saint John Paul the second gives a beautiful insight. 00:37:46.930 --> 00:37:52.150 I mean and here he's just summarizing what has been the experience of Christian tradition. 00:37:52.985 --> 00:37:59.705 In the cross of Christ, not only is the redemption accomplished through suffering, but also human suffering itself has been redeemed. 00:37:59.705 --> 00:38:00.845 This is very powerful. 00:38:01.545 --> 00:38:05.785 It's not only that God can make use of bad things to a good end. 00:38:05.785 --> 00:38:08.685 He actually turns bad things good. 00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:10.320 Well, how's that? 00:38:10.580 --> 00:38:12.360 Human suffering has been redeemed. 00:38:14.660 --> 00:38:18.760 And that's something, again, this is, we're not gonna get to the end of that one. 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:23.480 What does it mean that even the meaning of what I experience is is adversity? 00:38:25.445 --> 00:38:26.565 Has changed its meaning. 00:38:26.565 --> 00:38:34.425 That even as I experience being stretched and, you know, suffering, that even there, God is present. 00:38:35.365 --> 00:38:39.705 God Christ took on to himself the totality of evil, the experience of evil. 00:38:47.420 --> 00:38:49.440 And beautiful words by pope Francis. 00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:54.765 Again, not because pope Francis says it, but I think, you know, it's beautifully summarized here. 00:38:55.405 --> 00:38:59.085 Jesus is a faithful friend who accompanies and never disappoints us. 00:38:59.085 --> 00:39:01.585 In his cross, we find support and comfort. 00:39:01.725 --> 00:39:09.985 Jesus is the faithful friend who fills our lives even in difficult one difficult times, who accompanies us and never disappoints us. 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.700 You see the background in this slide here? 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:19.580 It's the fourth station of the cross. 00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:20.360 Sorry. 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:27.435 The fifth station where, you know, Christian tradition meditates on Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus to carry the cross. 00:39:27.435 --> 00:39:27.595 Right? 00:39:27.595 --> 00:39:28.795 And we read that in scripture. 00:39:28.795 --> 00:39:36.235 He was the father of Alexander and Rufus, which is a very interesting way of saying we don't know who Alexander and Rufus are. 00:39:36.235 --> 00:39:47.130 Obviously, he must have been known to the Christian community, but that Simon of Cyrene was the father of these two followers of Jesus, meaning that he must have been deeply touched by accompanying our lord. 00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:53.370 I wanna suggest that maybe the experience our experience in suffering is that it's inverted. 00:39:54.825 --> 00:39:58.985 Now our lord never leaves us to carry the cross alone and that he is with us. 00:39:58.985 --> 00:40:03.165 He's the one under there, and we're the one helping him out. 00:40:04.985 --> 00:40:07.160 So let me just kinda pause it there. 00:40:07.160 --> 00:40:19.420 And afterwards, I'm going to just suggest some pathways as to how just in in day to day experience this might be enacted and how we can be that, for others. 00:40:21.635 --> 00:40:32.935 And father Robert, I'm sure you could tie in the question that just came in as far as how to help people facing the death of a family member due to the pandemic. 00:40:33.670 --> 00:40:34.170 Yes. 00:40:38.630 --> 00:40:40.710 I certainly will tie that one in. 00:40:41.510 --> 00:40:44.410 Were there any others there, Ebony, that we can pull together? 00:40:46.165 --> 00:40:55.065 I think you answered this one, but you answered how a loving and powerful God allows or causes trials. 00:40:55.285 --> 00:40:59.050 So, maybe another example for that one. 00:40:59.190 --> 00:40:59.510 Yes. 00:40:59.510 --> 00:41:00.010 Okay. 00:41:01.990 --> 00:41:23.725 So, you know, when we think about an all powerful and all good God, something else we need to say about him is that he's also very humble, meaning that he's able to take things as they are and make himself present. 00:41:26.870 --> 00:41:35.850 You know, an image is that when we're in the pit of suffering and our temptation is to look up and say, god, where are you? 00:41:36.310 --> 00:41:38.570 Can you come down and help me in this pit? 00:41:40.305 --> 00:41:42.165 We hear the voice, here I am. 00:41:43.105 --> 00:41:46.165 And it's not of someone who's descending into the pit. 00:41:47.105 --> 00:41:54.380 It's a voice of somebody who's further down because our lord has born it all. 00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:00.460 Meaning that this is the only place at this point where I can meet you. 00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:05.420 So let's think about the meaning of accompaniment. 00:42:07.565 --> 00:42:09.485 So I think there's something very deep there. 00:42:09.485 --> 00:42:17.985 What does it mean to walk alongside one to assist them, to be with them, to love them, to affirm them? 00:42:19.565 --> 00:42:27.860 And what is it that god when we feel like the world and situations are telling us, you have no meaning. 00:42:27.860 --> 00:42:28.660 Look at you. 00:42:28.660 --> 00:42:30.040 We're gonna crush you. 00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:34.440 God, we hear the voice of God tell us, I'm with you. 00:42:34.500 --> 00:42:35.700 You do have meaning. 00:42:35.700 --> 00:42:38.120 In fact, you wanna know how much meaning you have? 00:42:38.965 --> 00:42:40.505 I gave my life for you. 00:42:44.165 --> 00:42:46.585 This is what we model when we're with others. 00:42:47.045 --> 00:42:52.710 How to be with family members, how to be with people who've lost a loved one, be with them. 00:42:52.710 --> 00:42:54.970 You be the presence of god with them. 00:42:56.790 --> 00:42:58.650 But can we take their pain away? 00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:02.330 Allow it to be transformed. 00:43:03.605 --> 00:43:04.745 Carry it with them. 00:43:06.485 --> 00:43:19.140 You know, and this is one of the pieces that's most important for spiritual directors and for anyone who accompanies others is listen. 00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:29.780 And by listening, we're not just speaking about letting them talk as a therapeutic means. 00:43:30.705 --> 00:43:33.845 Allow them to bring you to the depth of their experience. 00:43:35.505 --> 00:43:36.325 Hear them. 00:43:36.385 --> 00:43:39.605 Not only hear them, amplify their experience for them. 00:43:39.665 --> 00:43:42.465 Allow them to allow it to express enter it with them. 00:43:42.465 --> 00:43:47.710 When a person is suffering, one of the most difficult things is facing that suffering alone. 00:43:48.250 --> 00:43:55.470 But when you hear their story, when you go on with them, they're able themselves to begin to give it meaning. 00:43:56.010 --> 00:44:02.225 And in some way, isn't this where we see the greatest individuals rise? 00:44:03.005 --> 00:44:06.545 Isn't this where some of the greatest benefactors to humanity? 00:44:07.165 --> 00:44:28.815 Isn't this where the Mother Teresa's of the world have come from, of those who are so oriented towards others that it's actually they found Christ, if they found meaning in their own suffering, and to allow ourselves to be a company too when we're suffering, when we're in adversity. 00:44:30.475 --> 00:44:51.110 And somebody who's not going to necessarily stay with you at the surface, somebody who's able to go with you deep, Deep where you where you experience maybe solitude, where you experience abandonment, where you experience not, you know, not being worthy to allow somebody to accompany you there. 00:44:51.730 --> 00:44:57.295 Because if somebody accompanies you there, it tends to exercise the fears. 00:44:59.675 --> 00:45:03.755 So with somebody who's lost a family member, let's not try to minimize their suffering. 00:45:03.755 --> 00:45:04.075 Yeah. 00:45:04.075 --> 00:45:05.215 It's it's a hardship. 00:45:05.755 --> 00:45:06.655 Be with them. 00:45:07.620 --> 00:45:08.680 Grieve with them. 00:45:08.820 --> 00:45:09.800 Cry with them. 00:45:09.860 --> 00:45:10.840 Listen to them. 00:45:11.540 --> 00:45:21.825 And your presence will begin to make a difference, because in a certain sense, your presence models the presence of god who's with them. 00:45:33.505 --> 00:45:36.565 Any any further questions at this point, Ebony? 00:45:38.270 --> 00:45:38.770 Yes. 00:45:39.870 --> 00:45:44.930 Listening therapy as pope Francis said to us missionaries of mercy. 00:45:45.470 --> 00:45:51.250 But if someone does not wanna share and you only pray for them, is that good? 00:45:55.095 --> 00:45:59.495 So, certainly, we can never force a person to share and praying for them. 00:45:59.495 --> 00:46:01.195 Obviously, it's very, very important. 00:46:01.895 --> 00:46:03.675 There are many ways of accompanying. 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:11.020 There are many ways of allowing your presence, your benevolence to be felt by another. 00:46:12.040 --> 00:46:17.740 We can never and we should never try to force ourself into another person's experience. 00:46:18.985 --> 00:46:27.305 But wherever they begin to share from whatever word through listening, tell me about that. 00:46:27.305 --> 00:46:28.585 You know, I'm hearing this. 00:46:28.585 --> 00:46:29.145 I'm hearing that. 00:46:29.145 --> 00:46:29.385 Yeah. 00:46:29.385 --> 00:46:30.765 You're having a hard day. 00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:34.160 What's, you know, what what what are you going through? 00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:48.075 And, you know, through through reflecting what you're hearing, through expanding, maybe through using metaphors, it sounds like, you you know, does it feel like you've been thrown into a pit? 00:46:49.895 --> 00:46:53.675 By sitting with him in it, it allows him to enter into it. 00:46:54.295 --> 00:46:57.895 At times, people don't wanna share because there is a lot of pain there. 00:46:57.895 --> 00:46:59.435 They don't know how to share. 00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:05.300 So at times, some of the, listening ways of listening can help deepen that. 00:47:05.300 --> 00:47:13.860 But, certainly, if a person is is not willing, is not ready to go there, you know, just accompany them to the level to which they can. 00:47:13.860 --> 00:47:15.375 We certainly pray for them. 00:47:17.615 --> 00:47:26.595 You know, there is a not that this is touching on the theme directly, but I think it does have a lot to do with it. 00:47:26.895 --> 00:47:57.155 You know, in the outcome studies that you do for in therapy, serious pathologies that might need specific interventions, perhaps even medical interventions aside, what they found that that help most people heal from trauma, from so many difficulties in life, more than any therapeutic technique is the relationship actually with a therapist. 00:47:58.895 --> 00:48:13.610 If a person if in this case, a client experiences in the therapist a person that they can trust, person with whom they've feel safe with, healing begins to take place. 00:48:14.710 --> 00:48:18.145 Now we're speaking about therapy there. 00:48:18.145 --> 00:48:20.965 You know, what we're talking about, that's a human dynamic. 00:48:21.025 --> 00:48:24.305 That's a natural law, which is god has put into human nature. 00:48:24.305 --> 00:48:24.785 Right? 00:48:24.785 --> 00:48:28.165 And therapy and good psychology has discovered that. 00:48:28.510 --> 00:48:34.530 But in some way, the spiritual accompaniment, I think, is where it's most its own, where it could come to full fruition. 00:48:34.590 --> 00:48:38.850 Why in some way, we feel protected, safe. 00:48:39.150 --> 00:48:43.010 We flourish when we know we're under the gaze of God. 00:48:43.865 --> 00:49:00.270 And, you know, so if somehow our gaze, our being with others, our goodness towards others can already begin to be a pathway in which they can grieve in a healthy way and in which they can continue to find meaning forward. 00:49:00.330 --> 00:49:11.470 Now it's not gonna it's not gonna be necessarily pleasant all the time or pretty, but it is an important process to be able to be there. 00:49:13.085 --> 00:49:25.105 And father Robert, I think you actually, proactively answered the next question that came in, but, I think it was written so well that I'm still gonna read it, as far as healing. 00:49:26.765 --> 00:49:34.890 And I'm sure there are other ways of healing that you can mention as well, you know, aside from the the mental. 00:49:34.950 --> 00:49:42.890 But the question or statement was, there are many examples of healing of suffering in the scripture by Jesus and the disciples. 00:49:43.495 --> 00:49:47.515 And Saint Paul tells us that some have the gift of healing in the church. 00:49:48.135 --> 00:49:51.195 Why do we not cease more of such healings today? 00:49:51.575 --> 00:50:00.510 It seems to me that Jesus' instinct was to heal in the presence of suffering, not to provide a rationale for why suffering was inevitable. 00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:04.570 So it's a very it's a very beautiful point. 00:50:05.930 --> 00:50:12.205 You know, we read in the gospel of Luke of that leper that came to Jesus and said, Lord, if you will, you can heal me. 00:50:12.825 --> 00:50:17.405 And Jesus reached out and healed him, right, and touched him. 00:50:18.505 --> 00:50:23.885 Yet at the same time, there were some situations where Jesus didn't intervene. 00:50:24.770 --> 00:50:31.490 You remember when the young man told him, Lord, tell my brother to share my his part my part of the inheritance with me. 00:50:31.490 --> 00:50:33.750 There was a real suffering there, wasn't there? 00:50:34.450 --> 00:50:37.285 And Jesus said, you know, who appointed me as your judge? 00:50:38.145 --> 00:50:45.425 In a certain sense, part of his healing had to be to kinda go in and reassess and confront himself with the gospel values. 00:50:45.425 --> 00:50:45.925 Right? 00:50:45.985 --> 00:50:51.460 So that perhaps there are situations where Jesus is inviting one one to go to go forward. 00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:59.620 And Saint John speaks about the healings as a sign, something that pointed to something much deeper. 00:51:01.040 --> 00:51:01.520 Right? 00:51:01.520 --> 00:51:08.055 That the physical healing pointed to something deeper. 00:51:08.055 --> 00:51:13.195 You could say the emotional healing, but there's something deeper even than the emotional healing, which is the spiritual healing. 00:51:13.975 --> 00:51:22.960 And also remember, saint Paul's dialogue with Christ that he recounts in the letter to the Corinthians. 00:51:23.580 --> 00:51:27.680 How he was given he was given an angel of Satan to beat him. 00:51:29.180 --> 00:51:29.580 Right? 00:51:29.580 --> 00:51:31.100 And a thorn in the flesh. 00:51:31.100 --> 00:51:34.560 And three times, he asked our lord, lord, take this away from me. 00:51:35.100 --> 00:51:36.335 But Jesus said, no. 00:51:36.395 --> 00:51:37.775 This is good for you, Paul. 00:51:39.675 --> 00:51:45.295 Because in imperfection, grace reaches perfection. 00:51:46.555 --> 00:52:00.640 What is it of the experience of our limitedness of that that our lord uses that as a stepping stone to grace? 00:52:01.180 --> 00:52:08.765 Now when we speak about suffering and healing, there's obviously a lot of different types of suffering and healing. 00:52:08.905 --> 00:52:18.925 One place where we always need to heal is where there's fundamental relationship wound wounds of relationship. 00:52:19.305 --> 00:52:19.805 Right? 00:52:19.945 --> 00:52:22.400 Where people feel that they can't trust others. 00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:24.000 How do we do that? 00:52:25.660 --> 00:52:28.000 More often than that is by being godlike. 00:52:29.660 --> 00:52:36.515 Can god give the power to some where signs of external healing could come. 00:52:36.515 --> 00:52:36.995 Yeah. 00:52:36.995 --> 00:52:38.055 Of course, he can. 00:52:38.515 --> 00:52:50.780 But if God doesn't give us that grace, right, God does nonetheless give to each one of us the ability to be for one another, assignment of Cyrene, or better yet, a Jesus of Nazareth. 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:52.200 Right? 00:52:52.200 --> 00:53:03.995 Where where we are accompanying, being with others, listening, entering them, you know, entering with them, and being with them in there where they are. 00:53:07.575 --> 00:53:14.070 All of this goes to shows as well too it's also, I think, an invitation to examine our own hearts. 00:53:15.110 --> 00:53:15.610 Right? 00:53:18.230 --> 00:53:18.310 Why? 00:53:18.310 --> 00:53:24.730 We read in in Genesis and we read throughout scripture that there is an enemy. 00:53:26.070 --> 00:53:36.025 And what this enemy does is that he tends to sow lies, fundamental lies, about the identity of God and our identity. 00:53:37.845 --> 00:53:40.425 And we see it in the book of Genesis chapter three. 00:53:40.565 --> 00:53:42.840 Did God really tell you? 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:43.240 You know? 00:53:43.240 --> 00:53:47.160 And he and, you know, meaning that be very aware. 00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:57.015 And one of the things that's most important, probably the deepest healings, is just be sure let's try to touch those maybe more fundamental lies. 00:53:57.715 --> 00:53:58.455 I'm unlovable. 00:53:58.915 --> 00:54:00.435 Nobody cares about me. 00:54:00.435 --> 00:54:01.735 I can't trust God. 00:54:02.515 --> 00:54:05.415 Those those are the ones that most need healing. 00:54:06.675 --> 00:54:16.720 Because if those are healed, it's amazing what the human person can do and endure and rise above. 00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:25.145 I know we're getting towards the end, Ebony, so I'm just going to wrap up. 00:54:25.845 --> 00:54:31.525 As well too, I mean, if I'm, if if there are any further questions, feel free. 00:54:31.525 --> 00:54:40.780 We can chat out my email if anyone wants to kinda connect afterwards, either through email or through a quick Zoom meeting, I'd be more more than happy to. 00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:50.460 One of the best ways of helping others and touching in the healing processes to accompany others is a spiritual director. 00:54:51.335 --> 00:54:54.075 You know, how do we know that we might have that calling? 00:54:55.255 --> 00:55:01.275 You know, do you have the desire to help people keep close to God through the ups and downs of life? 00:55:02.215 --> 00:55:06.530 You know, are you moved to accompany others in their ongoing pilgrimage to the living God? 00:55:07.070 --> 00:55:17.010 You know, with all that that pilgrimage involves, you know, is is, Psalm 23 says, at times, verdant pastures, but at times, yeah, really, dark valleys. 00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:24.725 Are you inspired when you discover the unshakable fidelity of closeness of closeness of God as he shares our joys and sorrows, hopes, and fears? 00:55:25.185 --> 00:55:34.005 And would you like to equip yourself with spiritual direction, traditions, skills, and virtues, and coach experience to serve others as a spiritual director? 00:55:34.830 --> 00:55:41.550 So what that's one of the things of, Divine Mercy University is a spiritual direction certificate program. 00:55:41.550 --> 00:55:45.630 But I just kinda leave it there at the introduction because I know we're kind of out of time. 00:55:45.630 --> 00:55:57.565 And you you can find more information, there on our on our on our You actually went through those pretty quickly. 00:55:57.565 --> 00:55:59.425 I think that, we got I did. 00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:00.540 Alright. 00:56:00.540 --> 00:56:02.380 Well, what what alright. 00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:03.260 I appreciate that. 00:56:03.260 --> 00:56:03.580 Thanks. 00:56:03.580 --> 00:56:05.820 That's all the juicy stuff right there. 00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:06.140 Alright. 00:56:06.140 --> 00:56:06.540 Thanks. 00:56:06.540 --> 00:56:07.360 Thanks, Seth. 00:56:07.380 --> 00:56:11.600 I will give you this one last question that just came in Okay. 00:56:12.460 --> 00:56:19.475 Which may have been a segue into our programs and the spiritual direction certificate itself. 00:56:20.255 --> 00:56:30.670 And that question was, how does therapy and spiritual direction walk hand in hand in healing the wounds in people's lives. 00:56:30.670 --> 00:56:31.170 Yeah. 00:56:32.190 --> 00:56:37.570 So the specific scope of each differs even though they go side by side. 00:56:38.110 --> 00:56:50.735 In spiritual direction, the specific scope is to grow in my relationship with the living God, is to grow my intimacy and my love, my surrender, my communion of life with him. 00:56:51.595 --> 00:56:52.975 And that is very healing. 00:56:53.835 --> 00:56:56.015 Like, we were made for God. 00:56:56.075 --> 00:56:58.255 Everything about us longs for God. 00:57:00.390 --> 00:57:08.250 Therapy has as its goal a good human functioning without necessarily reference for God. 00:57:08.470 --> 00:57:14.010 So, you know, some somebody who doesn't have an explicit faith in God can undergo. 00:57:14.715 --> 00:57:20.735 Now it's better when they go hand in hand, but I'm kind of kind of to make the point here of where their specific goal is. 00:57:21.035 --> 00:57:28.095 Now very often through the experience of human healing, yes, people will be open to the, wow, I've never experienced this before. 00:57:28.315 --> 00:57:35.570 It might open up their channel way, especially then to kind of a spiritual enlightenment, if you will, a spiritual relationship with God. 00:57:35.570 --> 00:57:37.490 But what they're focusing on is different. 00:57:37.490 --> 00:57:51.535 Now in many sit some situations, therapists and spiritual director have to work hand in hand, particularly when you have certain wounds which exceed the bounds of what spiritual direction is meant to to deal with. 00:57:52.875 --> 00:58:07.510 And that's one of the things we do teach in the program, and it's, beautiful that we're able to kinda develop this program together with the collaboration of, you know, a doctoral program in psychology and the masters of psychology and the masters of of mental health counseling. 00:58:08.130 --> 00:58:11.330 So, you know, at the same time, you got to respect both domains. 00:58:11.330 --> 00:58:12.230 They are different. 00:58:12.415 --> 00:58:13.935 You wanna respect both domains. 00:58:13.935 --> 00:58:21.215 It's not right for a spiritual director to be a therapist, and the therapist, doesn't shouldn't act as a spiritual director. 00:58:21.215 --> 00:58:23.215 Now can per same person act as both? 00:58:23.215 --> 00:58:23.535 Yeah. 00:58:23.535 --> 00:58:24.195 You can. 00:58:24.810 --> 00:58:32.430 But you need to have clear boundaries and the permission of what that person that you're working with in their life has invited you to do. 00:58:32.490 --> 00:58:32.990 Okay? 00:58:39.425 --> 00:58:43.845 So on this side, feel free to, interject at any time there again, Ebony. 00:58:44.465 --> 00:58:51.045 This slide just describes the four the, six courses that comprise the spiritual direction certificate program. 00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:55.230 It's a certificate level program, so it's not a degree program. 00:58:56.090 --> 00:59:04.830 Each one of the courses is about forty to sixty contact hours by five to eight hours of work a week, eight week courses. 00:59:05.405 --> 00:59:07.985 The first course, lays the foundation. 00:59:08.205 --> 00:59:14.225 It's, very much spiritual theology and spiritual tradition of understanding what spiritual growth is. 00:59:14.765 --> 00:59:22.780 We look at the difference between spiritual direction and and therapy, and the foundations of spiritual direction. 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:24.780 Second course looks at human development. 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:27.340 This is where we kind of involve the human sciences. 00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:31.400 If grace builds on and perfects nature, what is that nature? 00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:34.975 What is that human nature that enters into relationship with god? 00:59:34.975 --> 00:59:36.415 What does human development look like? 00:59:36.415 --> 00:59:41.155 What does development look across the lifespan in different cultural situations? 00:59:41.695 --> 00:59:47.670 And we also look there as what do the human sciences have to say about the human dynamic of relationship. 00:59:47.730 --> 00:59:50.710 And there we look at attachment theory and number of other theories. 00:59:51.330 --> 00:59:54.390 The third course is the relating skills for spiritual direction. 00:59:54.610 --> 01:00:03.085 And what are those relating skills, especially deep listening skills, which have both a human element, but also a theological element. 01:00:03.085 --> 01:00:17.220 Because if we believe that God is present in each life, regardless of where every person is, and that God is is, in a certain sense, inviting every man, woman, and child to relationship with him, that means there's an echo in there in that life. 01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:26.880 And so the deep listening skills allow us to do what we've spoken about here, but it's also a pathway then to the fourth course, which is discernment and spiritual growth. 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:27.440 You know? 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:28.720 How do you hear the voice of God? 01:00:28.720 --> 01:00:31.495 I mean, there's a lot of movements we might have. 01:00:31.495 --> 01:00:31.655 Right? 01:00:31.655 --> 01:00:34.295 How do you distinguish those movements which come from God? 01:00:34.295 --> 01:00:36.635 Listening allows us to get us there. 01:00:36.935 --> 01:00:40.395 The fifth course is on advanced spiritual direction skills and practicum. 01:00:41.015 --> 01:00:44.475 And the seventh course is on advanced prayer and advanced situations. 01:00:44.615 --> 01:00:56.050 There are two residencies, four day residencies in the third course and in the fifth course, which are, times when, we come on-site even though the program is fully online, so it's very flexible. 01:00:56.350 --> 01:01:04.595 But there are two moments in the, cycle when we bring students together of a cohort to just have an intensive, residency experience. 01:01:05.775 --> 01:01:08.415 Students there learn the practical skills. 01:01:08.415 --> 01:01:09.535 What is it like to listen? 01:01:09.535 --> 01:01:10.515 What is it like? 01:01:10.975 --> 01:01:20.280 We look at such things as boundaries, transference, countertransference, what's that experience like, and not just theory, but let's experience it. 01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:25.740 And, you know, and also we teach the process of supervision for spiritual directors. 01:01:34.895 --> 01:01:38.675 So, yeah, there's a kind of a map of the courses there. 01:01:39.535 --> 01:01:44.115 And as I know as I mentioned, you could find more information on on our website. 01:01:47.570 --> 01:01:55.430 As I mentioned, it's the integration of the contribution of human sciences with the Catholic Christian perspective and traditional spiritual development. 01:02:00.515 --> 01:02:03.815 Our next start is on, on August 19. 01:02:03.875 --> 01:02:06.675 The deadline for that application is July 31. 01:02:06.675 --> 01:02:10.855 We have three starts a year, sort of three times a year when we offer all six courses. 01:02:13.150 --> 01:02:20.770 August to October, January to March, and then May through, late May through, through July. 01:02:22.190 --> 01:02:24.610 Students could start at any one of those times. 01:02:24.935 --> 01:02:31.495 If they need to leave off, the next time they come on, they just kind of pick up with the next course and the next cycle with the next cohort. 01:02:31.495 --> 01:02:34.795 So it's a very there's great, flexibility in that regard. 01:02:37.710 --> 01:02:38.990 So that's it on my end. 01:02:38.990 --> 01:02:51.250 I have any unless there are any further questions or any further thing we need to unpack, but I think our good our good listeners have gotten probably more than an earful of father Robert, and, I think they've had their share of trial this afternoon. 01:02:53.365 --> 01:02:53.865 Yeah. 01:02:55.045 --> 01:02:55.545 Yeah. 01:02:56.165 --> 01:03:04.985 Big thanks from a lot of our listeners, especially Victoria O'Donnell, who's on the line and, who is our program assistant. 01:03:06.245 --> 01:03:18.870 You you will be able to go to the website at sdc-divinemercy.org, to see all of this information, and we will also be sending, the recording via email. 01:03:19.890 --> 01:03:28.275 So please make sure you check out that website, and, look at the course descriptions, look at the faculty. 01:03:28.275 --> 01:03:30.455 You can see father Robert's bio. 01:03:31.235 --> 01:03:34.055 You can look at the breakdown on the course starts. 01:03:35.555 --> 01:03:45.010 And you can also, email the program assistant @sdcatdivinemercy.edu. 01:03:46.910 --> 01:03:56.025 So we're absolutely excited to be able to answer any questions that you all may have, and we appreciate, you for attending today's webinar. 01:03:57.205 --> 01:04:00.105 And thank you, father Robert, for all of the information. 01:04:00.325 --> 01:04:15.680 Hopefully, some wounded hearts can be mended with that information that you shared or even a process, can be started as far as the acceptance piece of of God enabling the suffering. 01:04:16.460 --> 01:04:18.945 So alright. 01:04:18.945 --> 01:04:22.965 Well, without further ado, I see greetings from Mexico. 01:04:23.105 --> 01:04:23.605 Alright. 01:04:25.792 --> 01:04:26.292 Great. 01:04:27.792 --> 01:04:29.232 Well, well, god bless you all. 01:04:29.232 --> 01:04:30.612 Thank you for joining us. 01:04:31.312 --> 01:04:31.812 Alright. 01:04:31.872 --> 01:04:32.612 Take care.